Why do Muslims venerate Saladin but ignore Baybars, who accomplished far more than Saladin?

Why do Muslims venerate Saladin but ignore Baybars, who accomplished far more than Saladin? Baybars was literally Saladin on steroids.

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  1. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    They had no written records of their own and need christian writers to know of their own past and christians raised a far bigger deal about Saladin calling him the 2nd coming of Nero Satan etc

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      >12th century Arabs had no written records of their own

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      You're so right. In fact, there were no written records of the region from Arab rule up until the 20th century. They completely forgot how to read and write and record their own history because it was "haram". It was so severe that they even forgot their own religion, and only after European contact in the 19th century, the Arabs knew what Islam was.

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        hahahaha

        but yeah frick wiggers. theyre only marginally better than poojeet and Black person wewuzzers.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      Half right, they had no records of pre muslim times and are now trying to steal treasures the french and british saved from the deserts

  2. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    For the same reason hundreds of other influential historical figures are overlooked. Most people barely care about history and only have the bandwidth to memorize a handful of people who were politically advantageous to memorialize.

  3. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >turk warrior slave turned to king of egypt and syria
    >turks do the same shit with balkans but don't expect the same thing to happen
    Are turks moronic

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      Saladin is remembered by everybody
      Both muslims and non muslims while Baybars is only remembered by muslims

      The kind of turks that baybars came from arent the same kind of turks that the ottomans came from
      They not even the same group and probably hated each other

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      Arabs(don't even know if other Muslims knew him) respected him more and his story was always told in cafes and other places where you'd expect to hear a story, saladin popularity started rise with European colonialism and when kaizer williams Visited his grave in 1898, further more the ottomans did some renovations to his grave, and then obviously the creation of the zionist entity and the similarities between the time he grew up and now.

      Baybars was tall and had blonde hair and blue eyes, since when did turks have these features? Not to mention he grew up in the arab world and arabic culture

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        He was a kipchak. They were a Turkic people widely described by Byzantine and Persian sources as having brunette/blonde hair and hazel/green/blue eyes

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          What happened to them? Do they still exist? How different are they from other turks?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            The language still exist
            The actual kiptchaks probably disapeared and got mutted or all killed, just like the oghuz

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            They got Mongolised, like all of Central Asia. Unironically, the closest people you'll get to them now, at least phenotypically, are the Yoruks.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Wrong. The Central Asian steppes have always had a diversity of phenotypes, even amongst the Mongols. Go to any Turkic region and you'll find redheads, blondes, blue eyes, and green eyes.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            This is definitely done only by isolated Pamir Tajiks and Pashtuns with an ancient Aryan addition from the Andronovo culture. turkics range from the completely yellow Mongol to the completely brown Gypsy/Arab.

  4. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Why do Muslims venerate Saladin
    Because Germans told them to.

  5. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    "Cursed is man, how disbelieving is he."

  6. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >muslims
    >having knowledge of history
    pick one

  7. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Baybars was described as a tall man with olive skin and blue eye
    nÖrdic brothers..

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      It's always the balkanoids that do this crazy chopchop shit

  8. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    More like GAYBARS amirite

  9. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    What are you talking about? Baybars is extrmely venerated here in egypt we have statues of him
    saladin is just more internationally known due to the western perception of him

  10. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Great question. I've actually hinted at why a few times on the board and even considered making threads on various examples but never came around it.

    Basically, most common people's understanding of history is largely reduced to memes and whatever is pushed via institutional education. Unfortunately, in the Muslim World the institutional education is scarce in itself and so all history is reduced to memes. The average Muslim cannot tell you what the Muslim World even consists of today geographically, and they damn sure cannot tell you about all the areas that existed in the past that have been genocided of Muslims, even into the 20th century. Nor can they tell you about the persecution and genocide happening today UNTIL it is covered by Western media.

    So, people finally found out about the Rohingya in the early-2010s and how they were being violently genocided by Myanmar (and then forget about it soon after), and then finally started paying some attention to the Uyghurs in the late-2010s (but still are unaware of the Utsuls who very likely will be made extinct within this century by the PRC, or that the Kazakh, Kyrgyz and Xinjiang Hui minorities are subject to the same persecution by China), and they pay NO attention to the situation of Muslims the Central African Republic, Uganda, Cameroon, DR Congo, Mozambique or even Russian-occupied Ukraine. And they damn sure don't care about how Muslims are treated even in Muslim countries like Chad, Sudan and Yemen or the situation of Muslim across the Sahel.

    Going back to the Crusades specifically, the reason Salah ad-Deen is popular is because WESTERN writers romanticized him. They did not romanticize Nur ad-Deen Zenki who was the main Ghazi before him, nor even Rukn ad-Deen Baibars after him. They make up the top three most important Muslim leaders that defeated the Crusaders.

    [1/2]

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      (You)

      It was Nur ad-Deen that SENT Shirkuh and his nephew Saladin to Egypt to back Fatimid vizier Shawar in a power struggle! And do you notice how emphasis on the discourse around Saladin is exclusively on his fight against the Crusaders and liberating Jerusalem? The reason for this is because that's what was most relevant to the Christians Westerners!

      To me Saladin's biggest achievement was his takeover of Fatimid Egypt from the Isma'ili Shia. Because of the that, Isma'ilism was wiped out from Egypt and by extension the northern Sudan and eastern Maghreb. Consequentially, Isma'ilism stopped being the second biggest sect of Islam in favor of the Twelvers. (Ithna'ashari). His liberation of Jerusalem is his second-most impressive. Even though he defeated the Crusaders as a whole, they did launch the Third Crusade before Saladin's death that managed to retake territory outside Jerusalem albeit it was much smaller than what they held from the Second Crusade.

      The meme brain is partly why I have massive annoyance towards the new gen of Islamic vloggers and debaters. They almost never talk about what needs to be talked about, and when they do it's years late and only after the US popularizes it, whether directly by the US or in reaction to the US. The traditional Sunni clergy are even more moronic because ignorance is their MO. The Salafists are borderline heretics and PREYING on ignorance is their MO. And traditional Muslim leaders are colluders with anti-Muslim enemies, so don't expect anything from them to begin with because the last thing they want you doing is reading up on history and current affairs and finding out what their friends and allies are doing to Muslims or have done to Muslims across recent centuries.

      Most morons actually think the Abbasid "Caliphate" was relevant beyond the 900s, or even that the Ilkhanate sack of Abbasid Baghdad in 1258 did major harm to the Muslim World. LMAO nuff said.

      [2/2]

  11. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Also blue eye and blonde slave

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      He was a mongoloid turk

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        Turks were gigamutts
        Many of them did have those features

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        As I already mentioned in this thread, he was a kipchak turk, a people who had a phenotype that was predominantly blonde and blue eyed

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          source?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >phenotype that was predominantly blonde and blue eyed
            Wrong, brunette and brown eyed. Even the French are only 10% blonde and 20% blue eyed. Can't expect a Eurasian conglomerate to be higher.

            Not sure about blonde hair specifically but one Chinese source described their appearance as ugly due to how foreign they looked compared to the Han
            >Kipchaks have light hair and blue eyes. Their appearance is vile and peculiar, so there are those who do not wish to marry them.
            -Da Ming lü jijie fuli 6.36b

            Another Chinese source also described their appearance
            >They customarily sleep armed and armored; they are courageous, fierce, firm, and vehement; [they are] blue/green-eyed and red-haired.
            -Zizhi Tongjian Houbian

            Going by these descriptions, it's pretty clear that the Kipchaks were far removed from the standard East Asian phenotype, especially since the Chinese didn't express such disgust at the appearance of Mongols. The present day mongoloid phenotype showed up after the Mongol conquests.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            i see.

            old chinese sources are notoriously terse so the sources most likely meant they were distinguished by having a notable proportion of light eyed and haired members. its extremely unlikely that even a single tribe would be mostly blue eyed, and even less likely for an entire ethnic group.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            probably an old description of the Yuezhi/Wusuni who were an eastern Iranian tribe in western China long before the first Turkics appeared.

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          >phenotype that was predominantly blonde and blue eyed
          Wrong, brunette and brown eyed. Even the French are only 10% blonde and 20% blue eyed. Can't expect a Eurasian conglomerate to be higher.

  12. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Western Euros memed Saladin into relevance while not caring about the other muslim leaders.
    Kind of like Tours is treated as a battle of massive importance even though it was fricking nothing, simply because Charlemagne's grandpappy led the army

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