Why do Muslims venerate Saladin but ignore Baybars, who accomplished far more than Saladin? Baybars was literally Saladin on steroids.
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Why do Muslims venerate Saladin but ignore Baybars, who accomplished far more than Saladin?
They had no written records of their own and need christian writers to know of their own past and christians raised a far bigger deal about Saladin calling him the 2nd coming of Nero Satan etc
>12th century Arabs had no written records of their own
You're so right. In fact, there were no written records of the region from Arab rule up until the 20th century. They completely forgot how to read and write and record their own history because it was "haram". It was so severe that they even forgot their own religion, and only after European contact in the 19th century, the Arabs knew what Islam was.
hahahaha
but yeah frick wiggers. theyre only marginally better than poojeet and Black person wewuzzers.
Half right, they had no records of pre muslim times and are now trying to steal treasures the french and british saved from the deserts
For the same reason hundreds of other influential historical figures are overlooked. Most people barely care about history and only have the bandwidth to memorize a handful of people who were politically advantageous to memorialize.
>turk warrior slave turned to king of egypt and syria
>turks do the same shit with balkans but don't expect the same thing to happen
Are turks moronic
Saladin is remembered by everybody
Both muslims and non muslims while Baybars is only remembered by muslims
The kind of turks that baybars came from arent the same kind of turks that the ottomans came from
They not even the same group and probably hated each other
Arabs(don't even know if other Muslims knew him) respected him more and his story was always told in cafes and other places where you'd expect to hear a story, saladin popularity started rise with European colonialism and when kaizer williams Visited his grave in 1898, further more the ottomans did some renovations to his grave, and then obviously the creation of the zionist entity and the similarities between the time he grew up and now.
Baybars was tall and had blonde hair and blue eyes, since when did turks have these features? Not to mention he grew up in the arab world and arabic culture
He was a kipchak. They were a Turkic people widely described by Byzantine and Persian sources as having brunette/blonde hair and hazel/green/blue eyes
What happened to them? Do they still exist? How different are they from other turks?
The language still exist
The actual kiptchaks probably disapeared and got mutted or all killed, just like the oghuz
They got Mongolised, like all of Central Asia. Unironically, the closest people you'll get to them now, at least phenotypically, are the Yoruks.
Wrong. The Central Asian steppes have always had a diversity of phenotypes, even amongst the Mongols. Go to any Turkic region and you'll find redheads, blondes, blue eyes, and green eyes.
This is definitely done only by isolated Pamir Tajiks and Pashtuns with an ancient Aryan addition from the Andronovo culture. turkics range from the completely yellow Mongol to the completely brown Gypsy/Arab.
>Why do Muslims venerate Saladin
Because Germans told them to.
"Cursed is man, how disbelieving is he."
>muslims
>having knowledge of history
pick one
>Baybars was described as a tall man with olive skin and blue eye
nÖrdic brothers..
It's always the balkanoids that do this crazy chopchop shit
More like GAYBARS amirite
What are you talking about? Baybars is extrmely venerated here in egypt we have statues of him
saladin is just more internationally known due to the western perception of him
Great question. I've actually hinted at why a few times on the board and even considered making threads on various examples but never came around it.
Basically, most common people's understanding of history is largely reduced to memes and whatever is pushed via institutional education. Unfortunately, in the Muslim World the institutional education is scarce in itself and so all history is reduced to memes. The average Muslim cannot tell you what the Muslim World even consists of today geographically, and they damn sure cannot tell you about all the areas that existed in the past that have been genocided of Muslims, even into the 20th century. Nor can they tell you about the persecution and genocide happening today UNTIL it is covered by Western media.
So, people finally found out about the Rohingya in the early-2010s and how they were being violently genocided by Myanmar (and then forget about it soon after), and then finally started paying some attention to the Uyghurs in the late-2010s (but still are unaware of the Utsuls who very likely will be made extinct within this century by the PRC, or that the Kazakh, Kyrgyz and Xinjiang Hui minorities are subject to the same persecution by China), and they pay NO attention to the situation of Muslims the Central African Republic, Uganda, Cameroon, DR Congo, Mozambique or even Russian-occupied Ukraine. And they damn sure don't care about how Muslims are treated even in Muslim countries like Chad, Sudan and Yemen or the situation of Muslim across the Sahel.
Going back to the Crusades specifically, the reason Salah ad-Deen is popular is because WESTERN writers romanticized him. They did not romanticize Nur ad-Deen Zenki who was the main Ghazi before him, nor even Rukn ad-Deen Baibars after him. They make up the top three most important Muslim leaders that defeated the Crusaders.
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(You)
It was Nur ad-Deen that SENT Shirkuh and his nephew Saladin to Egypt to back Fatimid vizier Shawar in a power struggle! And do you notice how emphasis on the discourse around Saladin is exclusively on his fight against the Crusaders and liberating Jerusalem? The reason for this is because that's what was most relevant to the Christians Westerners!
To me Saladin's biggest achievement was his takeover of Fatimid Egypt from the Isma'ili Shia. Because of the that, Isma'ilism was wiped out from Egypt and by extension the northern Sudan and eastern Maghreb. Consequentially, Isma'ilism stopped being the second biggest sect of Islam in favor of the Twelvers. (Ithna'ashari). His liberation of Jerusalem is his second-most impressive. Even though he defeated the Crusaders as a whole, they did launch the Third Crusade before Saladin's death that managed to retake territory outside Jerusalem albeit it was much smaller than what they held from the Second Crusade.
The meme brain is partly why I have massive annoyance towards the new gen of Islamic vloggers and debaters. They almost never talk about what needs to be talked about, and when they do it's years late and only after the US popularizes it, whether directly by the US or in reaction to the US. The traditional Sunni clergy are even more moronic because ignorance is their MO. The Salafists are borderline heretics and PREYING on ignorance is their MO. And traditional Muslim leaders are colluders with anti-Muslim enemies, so don't expect anything from them to begin with because the last thing they want you doing is reading up on history and current affairs and finding out what their friends and allies are doing to Muslims or have done to Muslims across recent centuries.
Most morons actually think the Abbasid "Caliphate" was relevant beyond the 900s, or even that the Ilkhanate sack of Abbasid Baghdad in 1258 did major harm to the Muslim World. LMAO nuff said.
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Also blue eye and blonde slave
He was a mongoloid turk
Turks were gigamutts
Many of them did have those features
As I already mentioned in this thread, he was a kipchak turk, a people who had a phenotype that was predominantly blonde and blue eyed
source?
Not sure about blonde hair specifically but one Chinese source described their appearance as ugly due to how foreign they looked compared to the Han
>Kipchaks have light hair and blue eyes. Their appearance is vile and peculiar, so there are those who do not wish to marry them.
-Da Ming lü jijie fuli 6.36b
Another Chinese source also described their appearance
>They customarily sleep armed and armored; they are courageous, fierce, firm, and vehement; [they are] blue/green-eyed and red-haired.
-Zizhi Tongjian Houbian
Going by these descriptions, it's pretty clear that the Kipchaks were far removed from the standard East Asian phenotype, especially since the Chinese didn't express such disgust at the appearance of Mongols. The present day mongoloid phenotype showed up after the Mongol conquests.
i see.
old chinese sources are notoriously terse so the sources most likely meant they were distinguished by having a notable proportion of light eyed and haired members. its extremely unlikely that even a single tribe would be mostly blue eyed, and even less likely for an entire ethnic group.
probably an old description of the Yuezhi/Wusuni who were an eastern Iranian tribe in western China long before the first Turkics appeared.
>phenotype that was predominantly blonde and blue eyed
Wrong, brunette and brown eyed. Even the French are only 10% blonde and 20% blue eyed. Can't expect a Eurasian conglomerate to be higher.
Western Euros memed Saladin into relevance while not caring about the other muslim leaders.
Kind of like Tours is treated as a battle of massive importance even though it was fricking nothing, simply because Charlemagne's grandpappy led the army