Was the Islamic Golden Age a real thing or is it just Arab cope
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Was the Islamic Golden Age a real thing or is it just Arab cope
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Talk religion
Was the Islamic Golden Age a real thing or is it just Arab cope
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It was a real thing and it lasted into the 1400s. The 1200s end-date is Arab cope.
Why is this called the Islamic Golden Age but the Renaissance is not called the Christian Golden Age?
>why was the era named after the fact that everyone got super into pre-christian european history, arts, philosophy, etc. not considered peak christianity
Well 1500s and 1600s were also the most christian periods in European history.
The Muslim golden age was the same thing, they got into pagan Greek philosophy, math and science. The Islamic world declined when it became more fundamentalist and lost interest in outside ideas thanks to people like ibn Tamiyya.
>The Islamic world declined when it became more fundamentalist and lost interest in outside ideas thanks to people like ibn Tamiyya.
Ibn Taymiyya is largely irrelevant outside of Hanbalis (and Salafis). The fundamentalism isn't why it declined. There were luddite policies pushed by rulers who weren't even fundamentalist.
>...The Muslim golden age was literally just Persians using old Sassanian and Greek knowledge, hell most scholars of this era outright hated Islam and did not attribute their knowledge to the Arabs
Bullshit. If they hated Islam, they wouldn't be counted among the Muslims. Countless Muslim scholars from the Middle Ages across all subjects.
>If they hated Islam, they wouldn't be counted among the Muslims.
what a broken example of "logic" ...
...The Muslim golden age was literally just Persians using old Sassanian and Greek knowledge, hell most scholars of this era outright hated Islam and did not attribute their knowledge to the Arabs
>hell most scholars of this era outright hated Islam
>source: my ass
Islamic golden age started when Baghdadi declared a Caliphate
I miss that lil homie 🙁
Thought he was the proclaimed Caliph who would bring the end of the world lmao
It was a real thing but lasted extremely briefly
It was real, in the same vein as the Roman or Hellenistic Golden Ages.
It was triggered mainly from the Persians converting en masse to Islam, and bringing their civilization with them, as well as the new caliphates ruling huge parts of the former Hellenistic world - and hellenized Christians translating Greek works for the Arabs, or simply converting to Islam themselves.
The Mongol conquests (as well as the Turks converting to Islam and autistically invading the Middle East) caused unending chaos and unrest throughout the region, basically killing the Golden Age and any hope for a continuation. After the Turkic and Mongol conquests, the Middle East became a theater in which Turkic armies constantly warred with each other.
then you must be able to name at least 5 pre-islamic persian intellectuals
>Islamic Golden Age was mainly due to Persians
>Persian made nothing of worth for 2 thousand years before they became Muslims
I don't deny that Persians had a huge influence on The Islamic Golden Age, but to say it's solely due to them and by them, is misguided. It reeks of a modern atheist Iranian, who wants to take the, in his view, "good" and reject the "bad" from his history.
so name 5 notable pre-islamic iranian intellectuals
homie, I was agreeing with you. Lrn2Read
my bad, im part kurd
Lel, the other half must be Turk for you to hate yourself like that.
no but u must be german for a joke to have gone over your head like that
>thinking Germans can't into jokes
You must be an anglo.
Iranic peoples were indeed the main driving force of Muslim intellectualism during the Middle Ages. However, it wasn't exclusively them either.
In North Africa and Al-Andalus it was mainly Arab and Amazigh intellectuals. In West and Central Asia, it was mainly Iranic peoples.
I'm not Iranian/Persian. I could care less about their nationalistic arguments. I am a Muslim, though, so I've long been interested in this topic.
"It is a remarkable fact that, with few exceptions, most Muslim scholars ... in the intellectual sciences have been non-Arabs, thus the founders of grammar were Sibawaih and after him, al-Farsi and Az-Zajjaj. All of them were of Persian descent they invented rules of (Arabic) grammar. Great jurists were Persians. Only the Persians engaged in the task of preserving knowledge and writing systematic scholarly works. Thus the truth of the statement of the prophet (Muhammad) becomes apparent, 'If learning were suspended in the highest parts of heaven the Persians would attain it "... The intellectual sciences were also the preserve of the Persians, left alone by the Arabs, who did not cultivate them...as was the case with all crafts. ... This situation continued in the cities as long as the Persians and Persian countries, Iraq, Khorasan, and Transoxiana (modern Central Asia), retained their sedentary culture."
- Ibn Khaldun
>Persian made nothing of worth for 2 thousand years before they became Muslims
This smells like Arab copium. The Persians had several giant empires and were the main rivals to Rome and the Hellenistic world in the Middle East. The Romans nearly bankrupted and ruined themselves fighting the Persians.
Harun al-Rashid's son, Al-Ma'mun (whose mother was Persian), is even quoted as saying:
"The Persians ruled for a thousand years and did not need us Arabs even for a day. We have been ruling them for one or two centuries and cannot do without them for an hour."
Look, at the end of the day, I don't care about the autistic contest between Arabs and Persians about who contributed more to Islamic civilization.
Also, I invite you to Islam.
>Look, at the end of the day, I don't care about the autistic contest between Arabs and Persians about who contributed more to Islamic civilization.
Though I do agree on this, as I wasn't the one that started this autistic squabble, and only joined half way through. I will also be the one that ends it, at least from my side. Plz ignore my post
Your quotes are pretty cool
No problem bro. Selam Aleykum.
Wa Aleykumu Selam
>This smells like Arab copium. The Persians had several giant empires and were the main rivals to Rome and the Hellenistic world in the Middle East. The Romans nearly bankrupted and ruined themselves fighting the Persians.
>muh Empire
Name one pre-Islam Persian thinker, going 3000 years back if necessary, that is in the league of Al-Khwarizmi
so it must be very easy to name at least 5 (five) pre-islamic iranian intellectuals, right?
Persians are Arab in everything but language, fersian rat.
idk. medieval europe were busy looking at butts though
>*points at butt*
>YOoo check out my buns, bro
>*also points at butt*
>HOLY shit bro those are some mayor buns, bro
i thought homosexuality was illegal in medieval europe
Homosexuality? Yes. Butt Admiration? No.
>the only time muslim science prevailed was when they had an endless supply of educated christian and israeli slaves
probably a coincidence
name 5 christian and israeli pre-islamic scientists then
Most of these guys were heretics and apostates.
Look I know it's trendy to bash on Muslims, but from the 8th century to arguably the 17th, they were one of the leading innovators in learning, arts, finance, etc.
What gets downplayed and outright ignored is the 12th century renaissance that Europe had. From 1100 to 1453, Europe's trajectory to development was growing leaps and bounds after centuries of malaise since the 5th century to the end of the Viking Age/beginning of the Crusades which coincided in the late 11th century. There's a reason why the 1000's was a pivotal watershed because Europe was starting to yield agriculture at profit that allowed them to project military and cultural projects beyond earlier limitations.
Anyone with half a brain would study in an Islamic university during the 800's to 1200s when arguably Islam was at its intellectual/artistic peak.
It was real, but it should be called the arab golden age because it mostly happened in arab cities and arabic language, and it started to decline after the mongol conquest of iraq in 1258 until it collapsed in the 16th century
>It was real, but it should be called the arab golden age because it mostly happened in arab cities and arabic language, and it started to decline after the mongol conquest of iraq in 1258 until it collapsed in the 16th century
Every single word coming out of your mouth is complete horse shit.
Do you eat horse shit for breakfast or for dinner?
No
Persians run the House of Wisdom from its inception and were behind the writing of the Quran & Hadith books in 8AD, they claim to have acquired Greek knowledge that came from the Library of Alexandria, there's no archeological records that library exited it's all made up, it was supposedly destroyed when Greeks rejected science and turned into pagan fanatics with their Greek gods and goddesses kind like what happens to Muslims when they drop science for full time worship of the Kaaba butthole and their library gets burned.
smartest shabbos goy
The Persian Pharisees(Farsis) wrote the Torah & Tanakh too. The Abrahamic cult is Indo-European.
Then that means Persia/Iran was the first golem in history. Nothing worth being proud in.
Still can't tell an Arab apart from a Persian.
Al Muqaddimah YouTuber.
Arabs believe original Arabs are the South Semitic Yemeni poojeets, Persian believe their Northern white ones are the original.
It’s a bad and subjective label, but it’s clear that the Abbasids marked the apex of Islamic civilization. Third worlders don’t understand their own history though and just constantly use the term because “it’s when our guys were powerful and badass,” Balkan-tier nationalism.
>the Abbasids marked the apex of Islamic civilization.
Not the Ottomans?
No their military achievements were impressive but they were overall inferior civilizationally.
Not even close, smaller ara empires like the al andalus or mamluks or Islamic ones like the samanids or Ghaznavids were much better.
Beating some balkanoids isn't very impressive, the apex of Islamic military power would tge rashiduns then the umayyads then the abbasids
The Ottomans were basically split into two groups:
- Nomadic Turks intermixing with native Anatolians over the centuries. Many of these stayed peasants in Anatolia
- Greeks, Croats, Serbs, Albanians, Italians, Armenians, Romanians etc etc. Muslim converts, basically a big chunk of the former Byzantine Empire. This latter group would constitute a big part of the political and military elite, primarily through the Janissaries.
I think if the early Umayyad's or Abbasids had captured Constantinople, we'd see a very different type of Islamized Roman Empire without the autistic Turkish nomadism
The Islamic Golden Age (TM) is what happens when warlords kill the local population surrounding every major library of the time, and the start claiming they invented everything. We wuz Greeks and shit!!!! The most important libraries they did not conquer were in Rome, which is why the renaissance started there. The Western Europe invented the university and remote libraries became less important, and the intellectual power balance has been restored ever since.
I love the Romans but this is pure autistic copium.
>We wuz Greeks and shit!!!!
This was literally the Roman's obsession for centuries, to copy the Greeks. Nothing wrong with that.
>The Islamic Golden Age (TM) is what happens when warlords kill the local population surrounding every major library of the time
This is false. The Muslims (with the help of Hellenized Christians) feverishly translated Greek works into Arabic. They were obsessed with Euclid and Greek mathematicians. The only difference between them and the Romans is that they didn't want to BE Greeks.
>The Western Europe invented the university
Highly debated. European scholars don't consider early Muslim madrasas as European style secular universities, although many early Muslim madrasas would teach the Greek Trivium and Quadrivium.
European universities, early on, very much were analogous to Islamic madrasas, and probably were inspired by them during the Crusades, as madrasas were established earlier. European universities, during the High Middle Ages, were primarily for clergy and lawyers, just as madrasas were primarily for ulema and jurists
and yet islamic countries are shitholes, no exceptions, their population either flocking to the infidel west or buying products and expertise from there, and muslims have to cope with distortions like these posts not to feel like the failures they actually are. do you think all those claims are even approximately true?
u resort to off topic becoz u lost thee argument
Innocent bystander. I am not particularly fond of current mainstream Islamic culture (what we get to see in the west at any rate) myself but what's fair it's fair and this is a non sequitur.
I thought universities were primarily for apothecaries/doctors.
I didn't know lawyers/jurists were the primary thing
Kidnapped, raped and tortured more than 2 million European slaves and 5 million Africans.
Muslims could field armies of 100k but Europeans couldn't between 500-1500
Who had the dark age, who had the golden age?
it speaks for itself