They are not protestants but they hold a protestant narrative. >The Church of Christ existed previously. >Something bad happened (Constantine, the Pope, Vatican II, etc.) >The Catholic Church has stopped to be the Church of Christ. >Due to some personal revelation or scholar work we realize this happened. >Now we hold the same teaching that the early Church did so we are the Church of Christ as an invisible body.
Now tell me this is not what sedevacantist believe.
With the small caveat that the current Pope's doctrine is in open conflict with the original church fathers, which was not the case at the time of Luther and his heretics.
There really are no similarities aside from the fact that they dont recognize their contemporaneous Papal figures.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Luther literally justified his schism claiming that ecumenical councils contradicted each other, just like papal teachings.
Sedevacantists, in practical terms, are also in open conflict to preconciliar papal teachings:
- The Catholic Church is visible
- The Catholic Church is indefectible.
- There'll be perpetual sucession of Popes until the new coming.
Protestants don't necessarily hold 2 or 3
And more importantly protestantism has the affirmative propositions of justification by grace through faith, sola scriptura, reformed ecclesiology and so on
2 years ago
Anonymous
Maybe 3 would be better formulated as: >The Catholic Church has stopped to be/persecuted and usurped the Church of Christ.
The rest are just fine. Those propositions are to justify 4 and 2. Just look at the Lutheran narrative:
>The Gospel and early Church taught (sic) justification by faith alone, sola scriptura, some sort of national churches. >The Pope during the middle ages started to introduce changes to gain more power, money.. >Martin Luther after the conscientious study of
the Scriptures realize the fraud and seeks to purify it. >Since most hierarchs rejected those teachings which, allegedly, comes from Christ, the true Church are those who accept them.
2 years ago
Dirk
Luther always taught that the church in Rome was a true church in error
2 years ago
Anonymous
He also held that the Church rises and falls on the doctrine of justification which according to him, the Catholic Church had lost.
There's a difference from rebelling against something because it's too conservative (which is what motivated Protestants) vs rebelling against something because it's too liberal (which is what motivates sedevacantists).
One of the reasons Evangelicals and Pentecostals end up being so conservative is because they actually believe in God. Conservative Catholics are largely concerned with aesthetics and rituals, all they ever talk about is which way the priest is facing during Mass and why the priest isn't speaking Latin and why they're allowing church services to be held in plain-looking cheap buildings, etc.
Conservative Evangelicals on the other hand largely talk about morals and spirituality. They talk about how they can fight against abortion and gay marriage, how they can encourage chastity, what God wants from them, etc.
Catholics don't bother with this, not even conservative Catholics, both because in their eyes its unnecessary, they don't care what their laity believes, as long as the church itself officially declares those things a sin then they don't need to put any work into having the people themselves believe they're a sin, and since the priesthood is doing all the thinking and praying for them, they don't need to worry about understanding God or what He wants from them.
Needless to say, this is why Evangelical is spreading so strongly. A church that utilizes 100% of its population because God every single one of them to personally fight on its behalf is going to do much better than a church that uses .05% of its population.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Your perspective of the average catholic is so unbelievably distorted I am forced to believe you live in some dystopic American east coast megacity or California. I have not seen a single European catholic act and conduct themselves in the way you have said.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Not even in Brazil the average catholic is like that
2 years ago
Anonymous
Papism is subhuman and every papist needs to be crucified.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Big words typed from your mom's basement
2 years ago
Anonymous
Watch out we got a tough guy in the taiwanese fishing forum!
I'm a sedevacantist atheist. Vatican II obviously contradicts prior Catholic theology in the same way that medieval Catholic theology contradicts Chalcedonian Christianity.
Catholics are really a joke. They can tolerate popes committing genocide and burning people at the stake for their beliefs, but the moment the pope is nice to gay people or Muslims once, that's when they draw the line. In a sense, Sedes are absolutely right when they point out the discontinuity between historical Catholicism and Vatican II, etc., but realistically, it shouldn't require something like that for you to see that Catholicism is just obviously false.
The Bons Hommes and their followers were mostly made up of disgruntled lower nobility and city notables who were being left behind by the economic growth of the era due to southern inheritance rules and other factors. The random peasants and most of the population in the area didn’t give a shit about «cathars», and no one in the region identified with an «occitan» identity. Montfort’s crusade quickly turned political anyway, making the «crusade» a fief grabbing effort by Montfort and then the King, against the influence of Aragon in southern France.
Never was the crusade genocidal in nature or in scope and most of the «cathars» returned to the catholic faith anyway, with only the Bons Hommes being actively hunted down and punished by the brand new, shiny, and still experimental inquisition.
>it shouldn't require something like that for you to see that Catholicism is just obviously false.
Except they don't see it as false, they see a contradiction in doctrine but then cognitive dissonance kicks in and they decide that they must be the one true Church and all those validly ordained bishops and cardinals are wrong.
moronic spiritual controlled op. Once you realize the whole premise of the "catholic church" is invalid and untrue, it's time to move on, not remain catholic with a few extra steps.
Protestants in copium phase.
You have no thoughts?
Untenable
The fact that this is always said really shows that many Catholics have no idea what protestantism is
They are not protestants but they hold a protestant narrative.
>The Church of Christ existed previously.
>Something bad happened (Constantine, the Pope, Vatican II, etc.)
>The Catholic Church has stopped to be the Church of Christ.
>Due to some personal revelation or scholar work we realize this happened.
>Now we hold the same teaching that the early Church did so we are the Church of Christ as an invisible body.
Now tell me this is not what sedevacantist believe.
With the small caveat that the current Pope's doctrine is in open conflict with the original church fathers, which was not the case at the time of Luther and his heretics.
There really are no similarities aside from the fact that they dont recognize their contemporaneous Papal figures.
Luther literally justified his schism claiming that ecumenical councils contradicted each other, just like papal teachings.
Sedevacantists, in practical terms, are also in open conflict to preconciliar papal teachings:
- The Catholic Church is visible
- The Catholic Church is indefectible.
- There'll be perpetual sucession of Popes until the new coming.
Protestants don't necessarily hold 2 or 3
And more importantly protestantism has the affirmative propositions of justification by grace through faith, sola scriptura, reformed ecclesiology and so on
Maybe 3 would be better formulated as:
>The Catholic Church has stopped to be/persecuted and usurped the Church of Christ.
The rest are just fine. Those propositions are to justify 4 and 2. Just look at the Lutheran narrative:
>The Gospel and early Church taught (sic) justification by faith alone, sola scriptura, some sort of national churches.
>The Pope during the middle ages started to introduce changes to gain more power, money..
>Martin Luther after the conscientious study of
the Scriptures realize the fraud and seeks to purify it.
>Since most hierarchs rejected those teachings which, allegedly, comes from Christ, the true Church are those who accept them.
Luther always taught that the church in Rome was a true church in error
He also held that the Church rises and falls on the doctrine of justification which according to him, the Catholic Church had lost.
They're neo-gallicans, not protestants.
But sedevacantists are angty that the church doesn't have enough rules. The complete opposite of what motivated Protestants.
prots didn’t become gay till after 1920. Before that they had more “rules”. No music, no dancing, no images, no incense, no fun allowed
There's a difference from rebelling against something because it's too conservative (which is what motivated Protestants) vs rebelling against something because it's too liberal (which is what motivates sedevacantists).
Really makes you think
saved
Sex is determined before birth though…
One of the reasons Evangelicals and Pentecostals end up being so conservative is because they actually believe in God. Conservative Catholics are largely concerned with aesthetics and rituals, all they ever talk about is which way the priest is facing during Mass and why the priest isn't speaking Latin and why they're allowing church services to be held in plain-looking cheap buildings, etc.
Conservative Evangelicals on the other hand largely talk about morals and spirituality. They talk about how they can fight against abortion and gay marriage, how they can encourage chastity, what God wants from them, etc.
Catholics don't bother with this, not even conservative Catholics, both because in their eyes its unnecessary, they don't care what their laity believes, as long as the church itself officially declares those things a sin then they don't need to put any work into having the people themselves believe they're a sin, and since the priesthood is doing all the thinking and praying for them, they don't need to worry about understanding God or what He wants from them.
Needless to say, this is why Evangelical is spreading so strongly. A church that utilizes 100% of its population because God every single one of them to personally fight on its behalf is going to do much better than a church that uses .05% of its population.
Your perspective of the average catholic is so unbelievably distorted I am forced to believe you live in some dystopic American east coast megacity or California. I have not seen a single European catholic act and conduct themselves in the way you have said.
Not even in Brazil the average catholic is like that
Papism is subhuman and every papist needs to be crucified.
Big words typed from your mom's basement
Watch out we got a tough guy in the taiwanese fishing forum!
This is what happens when the antichrist rises to the Holy See of Rome
>mutt graph
amazing
cope
>this bad pope is BAD
>but these other bad popes are okay
>because they just are
Because they haven't committed heresies like "Pope" "Francis"
I'm a sedevacantist atheist. Vatican II obviously contradicts prior Catholic theology in the same way that medieval Catholic theology contradicts Chalcedonian Christianity.
>sedevacantist
>atheist
yes
Catholics are really a joke. They can tolerate popes committing genocide and burning people at the stake for their beliefs, but the moment the pope is nice to gay people or Muslims once, that's when they draw the line. In a sense, Sedes are absolutely right when they point out the discontinuity between historical Catholicism and Vatican II, etc., but realistically, it shouldn't require something like that for you to see that Catholicism is just obviously false.
>popes committing genocide
?
Pope Innocent III and the Albigensian Crusade.
So defending holy lands from Islam soldiers is genocide?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade
American education, everyone
>Cathars
>Muslim
Also Pope Innocent III was also the one responsible for the crusade that sacked Byzantium.
Woops, meant for
>muh cathars
>muh occitan identity
The Bons Hommes and their followers were mostly made up of disgruntled lower nobility and city notables who were being left behind by the economic growth of the era due to southern inheritance rules and other factors. The random peasants and most of the population in the area didn’t give a shit about «cathars», and no one in the region identified with an «occitan» identity. Montfort’s crusade quickly turned political anyway, making the «crusade» a fief grabbing effort by Montfort and then the King, against the influence of Aragon in southern France.
Never was the crusade genocidal in nature or in scope and most of the «cathars» returned to the catholic faith anyway, with only the Bons Hommes being actively hunted down and punished by the brand new, shiny, and still experimental inquisition.
Never 4get the papist genocide of six gorillion Baltic Prussians.
>it shouldn't require something like that for you to see that Catholicism is just obviously false.
Except they don't see it as false, they see a contradiction in doctrine but then cognitive dissonance kicks in and they decide that they must be the one true Church and all those validly ordained bishops and cardinals are wrong.
>validly
More like sedecopeuntism
Just admit Vatican I was a mistake
Papists trying to be consistent with their history.
moronic spiritual controlled op. Once you realize the whole premise of the "catholic church" is invalid and untrue, it's time to move on, not remain catholic with a few extra steps.
Somehow they manage to be more cringe than normal cuckolicks