>Only religion where God consistently makes his presence known, and provides proof of his existence in the modern era
>People are still not Catholic
Why?
Examples
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_Sun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Akita
Super creepy shit
I would be Catholic if the Vatican wasn’t so sketchy. After reading Ybarra’s new book on the papacy, one can see that it’s a pretty strong case, but I still can’t ignore the massive issues with Vatican II and the recent popes.
Evidently though, something crazy does occasionally happen to Catholics. The Virgin of Guadelupe is a good example, as are what you mentioned. I’m not going to pretend there might not be something going on here, it could be diabolical, or from God, who knows
>After reading Ybarra’s new book on the papacy, one can see that it’s a pretty strong case
What’s the case?
His new book is good?
I've always found his apologetics to be shit
I am already a Catholic btw
It’s very nuanced and in-depth
>but I still can’t ignore the massive issues with Vatican II and the recent popes.
tsmt, Father Jenkins pray for us and to stop le hecking Great Replacement! Jesus was a white man who founded America and Pope Francis is a commie subverting the Church towards Satanism btw
so go Protestant ?
The church ultimately is still composed of mere men, I am a faithful catholic and I too have great distrust in the men of the institution, doesn't mean I discard the entire religion for I sincerely believe it to be the truth revealed by God and the saints
it's why I started going back to Church in my adulthood
for whatever faults there are in some of the members of the Church, and for however much I might worry about what could be going on, it's the only truth
I'll try and explain this in simple terms. You know how there are millions of fricking idiots in the world who just swallow bullshit without any critical thought? Well, you're one of them.
Okay rick and morty enjoyer
>god has the ability and will to make his presence known to mankind
>through cryptic bullshit to a select few 3rd world mass delusions
Is it autism?
Romans 1 and Romans 2 answer this question. Not only are the divine power and eternal attributes of God clearly seen from the things that have been made, the law is also written on the hearts of man. All know God, but they are in rebellion to Him. And not only did God make Himself known through His creation, He also revealed Himself to mankind to people such as Noah, and to Abraham, and to Moses, establishing a covenant people in order to prepare the world for the coming of the Messiah, who would be a light to the nations. Of course, Christ was born, prophecized centuries before by the prophets. The Scriptures were known around the Near East and Mediterranean, as well, as the Israelites had been scattered far and wide. Christ did His work, fulfilled prophecies, established a Church on the foundation of the prophets and apostles, sending out the apostles with the authority to govern and oversea churches, bind and loose, shepherd the people of God, etc. And they went literally to the ends of the earth. Not only is the faith proclaimed in Scripture, but in the unbroken succession of bishops, and their tradition. God gave you literally every opportunity and way imaginable.
Oh shut the frick up. Scripture doesn't explain anything, it's a cope. I can make the argument that the gods allowed the Eddas to be written and preserved and translated the world over as proof of paganism.
He's literally showing himself like at Fatima, why not everywhere all at once.
>I can make the argument that the gods allowed the Eddas to be written and preserved and translated the world over as proof of paganism.
Give me multiple prophecies being fulfilled centuries, if not nearly a millennium later with very specific details such as those that relate to Christ, and everything that we expect to see following the coming of Christ such as the Gentiles being entered in a New Covenant. The Bible is supported from an archeological perspective too, and the Church is an unbroken continuity of tradition. Paganoids have nothing.
>The Bible is supported from an archeological perspective too
Stop
>Non-Christians say that the Bible is not historical and it has obvious fakes like the Hittites
>Hittites proven to have existed
>”Okay there might be some truth, but most of it is fake, like the kings in the Book of Kings!”
>Kings mentioned in the Book of Kings are proven to have existed
>’Okay, these were real, b-but David and Solomon are surely made up!’
>Steles mentioning David are found
>b-but patriarchs and the exodus!
Soon you’ll realize that Genesis is historically and scientifically accurate
Tell me about the 10 plagues of Egypt and all the evidence the hebrew slaves left in Egypt, surely there must be a lot kek.
Have you heard of something called the Pyramids?
>no answer
As expected from Christisraelites.
>This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles, knowing this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, through which the world at that time was destroyed, being deluged with water. But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some consider slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be found out.
We know who built the pyramids and when, they left inscriptions, names, even graffiti from the workers, they left a whole small town built to provide for and shelter the laborers, there is even a graveyard with remains.
They were not built by Hebrew slaves by that name or any other. They were not built by slaves.
>uncorrupted continuity of tradition
Uncorrupted continuity of corruption of tradition, you mean?
How is gentiles entering an universal religion some great prophecy? Who else would enter?
You didn't really answer his question.
>You secretly know god exists, you just hate god.
Compelling. I can see why only third worlders eat this up nowadays.
This is the answer.
There is no standard of proof even an all-powerful God could give that would make a modern-day Atheist believe in Him.
When an Atheist sees the miracle that is the universe, and human existence, and life, they brush it all off as pure chance and happenstance. While when any spiritual person sees these things, he knows that a God must be responsible.
Any supernatural occurrence would just be brushed off as "some science we don't yet understand".
They don't fill gaps in understanding with mysticism.
This is the eternal dilemma.
There is enough reason you can derive from the universe to prove that atheism is insufficient.
But that proof in no way validates that the Christian God and Christianity are true.
So the religious play this fricking bait and switch all day on that shit.
>But that proof in no way validates that the Christian God and Christianity are true.
>So the religious play this fricking bait and switch all day on that shit.
But on a scale from Atheism to Theism/Deism, any brand of Theist or Deist is closer to the correct answer than an Atheist is.
I'm happy enough with people admitting that Atheism is the wrong answer, even if they don't decide to prescribe themselves to my brand of Christianity.
Yes, I agree.
Deism is also better than agnosticism which is just atheist embarrassed to say so.
This is one of the reasons why I lean towards predestination
>OY VEY THE CHOSEN PEOPLE IS ME AND MY RELATIVES
I say that. Love my family
One reason predestination is wrong within Christian theology is that Christ specifically says he along can judge righteousness.
So, it's literally a DIVINE MYSTERY how the frick you are able to be held accountable for your actions when God creates the conditions of your life.
But that's the point
GOD KNOWS HOW TO FRICKING TELL YOU SPERGS.
Calvinism is literally israeli Gnosticism infiltrating Protestantism. The point of predestination is to leave the believer in a state of perpetual confusion and psychological trauma, which makes it easy as frick to control them.
This is why Calvinist and Puritan peoples support direct, absolute, personal totalitarian politics.
It's designed to cause intergenerational, epigenetic trauma that breeds a race of neurotics who seek out reasons to feel guilty when there are none. AKA modern yankee liberals and so forth.
Interesting. Thanks
Based. I'm going to copypaste this one in the future, don't say I didn't warn you
It's frickin cringe, dude
How do you explain that there are untold billions that won't be saved due to factors completely out of their control (upbringing, place/time of birth, etc.)? That lends credibility to the idea that not everyone can be saved and that God has already made his decisions
God who won't save people because they happened to not have water splashed on their head is a moronic God.
Maybe the problem isn't everyone else, maybe it's you.
>be born in random island that has zero contact with the Christian world
>God hates you
Let me engage with this Calvinist bullshit.
So Isaiah, Ezekiel, Job are burning in hell?
Oh wait people who died before Christ get a free pass, right?
Oh wait but what about people who died after Christ but never heard the gospel yet?
Oh, free pass.
Oh wait, what about people who heard the gospel, but from an unconvincing sinner, and they live in a society with tons of pressures and distractions.
Hey, maybe GOD KNOWS HOW TO FRICKING TELL IF YOU'RE RIGHTEOUS OR NOT.
So if YOU DO hear the gospel from a good source, and it makes sense and clicks, and YOU reject it, God will tell that you're a sinner.
While some poor kid in India who's buttraped growing up but does a kindness to people before dying of AIDS at 17 might go to heaven.
God being able to tell who's righteous does not invalidate the commandment to get baptized for those who hear it and have it available to them.
What terrible Calvinist shit that little babies who never heard about Christ burn in hell because legalistic bullshit didn't occur. Is there not a more israeli version of Christianity than this?
Nothing in your post refutes predestination
Your post isn't true
Here's my doctrine.
Everyone on Earth will go to heaven and be happy.
Except you, you're going to hell, because God said so.
Nothing you say can refute this.
What does any of this have to do with Calvinism? God is the one who saves us, and he can save whoever he wills to save. The ones who teach that babies go to hell are Catholics, because of their understanding that baptism is necessary for salvation. This is why they developed the theory of Limbo, which a place in Hell where unbaptized babies go where they are deprived of the beatific vision but are not punished. As Calvinists, we trust God to do what is right, whatever that ends up being. We don't make a positive claim that this or that person is damned. God is the judge, not us.
>The point of predestination is to leave the believer in a state of perpetual confusion and psychological trauma
False, the doctrine of predestination is something that God revealed to us for our comfort. If it causes you anxiety then you are not viewing it correctly. The promises of the Gospel all stand and are held out to all men. If you have faith in Christ, he will save you. As he says himself, "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out" (John 6:37). There are no men who trust in Christ for their salvation, who are then damned because they are not elect.
>Japan
>3rd world mass delusion
A few nuns in Japan said they saw something so now we have to believe it too?
How about people around the world seeing stuff
>How about people around the world seeing stuff
how about people around the world hearing voices?
*Everybody who experiences anything out of the ordinary is insane*
Is this your point of view summarized sir?
no.
>Miracle of the Sun
Lol, probably the most moronic Catholic "miracle." I don't know how anyone buys it.
yeah it sounds like some bullshit some kids made up but
>two of the children died during the influenza epidemic, they both refused any treatment stating that the mother mary had reappeared to them and promised she would take them to heaven soon
>during their illness they dragged themselves to church everyday to pray
>the third child almost lived to 100 and spent her whole life as a nun
>evangelical kid on his deathbed says that Jesus appeared to him and said he'll be in Heaven shortly
>devout Lutheran almost lives to 100
>Catholics: "Welp, that settles it, we were wrong all along"
The secular media went there to mock the event and got to witness the sun miracle themselves, and reported it.
Also dont lie about refused treatment, Jacinta even died at the hospital, and had surgeries done.
Satan cant heal people.
Lourdes is my favourite because the miracles are attested by hundreds of doctors and thorough testing and the medical files are available for anyone to investigate for themselves.
Do you know what St.Justin says about the Eucharist? That it is the real flesh and blood of Christ?
The placebo effect can heal. If the placebo is righteous belief that satan heals, then he in facts does heal.
>Do you know what St.Justin says about the Eucharist? That it is the real flesh and blood of Christ?
Yes. He would also excommunicate the entire catholic and orthodox churches for their heresy.
>We have apostolic tradition
>NO, not THAT tradition, that guy who was earlier than any of our guys and closer to the actual real tradition is a HERETIC because he said things which councils hundreds of years later first decided they didn't like.
>And yeah this guy we like would call us a heretic because we invented things he was against
>But it's all apostolic tradition, unbroken line.
I fricking hate Orthodoxy.
More like Roman Theocracy. How Christians confuse whatever the frick their religion was when it was persecuted by Rome to the thing that Rome took over to control and rule people, I'll never know.
Like, you have Pelagius and Arius who clearly reflect the older and majority positions, but the Emperor of Rome says XYZ and that becomes the "secret" "real" tradition. WTF?
>We have apostolic tradition
>NO, not THAT tradition, that guy who was earlier than any of our guys and closer to the actual real tradition is a HERETIC because he said things which councils hundreds of years later first decided they didn't like.
>And yeah this guy we like would call us a heretic because we invented things he was against
>But it's all apostolic tradition, unbroken line.
So much this. And then they rail on and on about how YOU have a private understanding while they laugh. Meanwhile what they understand is based on some other dude's private understanding that has nothing to do with what the early church taught. Such hypocrisy it's insane.
you should add christ-on-a-toast to the ways god manifests himself. he could write on the sky with blazing letters, but no, it's hallucinations and miraculously found car keys.
what is the point of these apparitions? do they change the belief of anyone? (either making someone believe or preventing someone from leaving belief.) if yes, then why not provide a manifestation that would convert everyone, given how it apparently does not clash with free will? if no, what's the point god tries to make?
desperate believers taking anything they can as proof of their god is gonna be a much better explanation than anything you could come up with.
>desperate believers taking anything they can as proof of their god is gonna be a much better explanation than anything you could come up with.
You are desperate to believe they're not real despite having no explanation for it, why?
so, why does god manifest himself in such severely ambiguous and so easily disproved ways instead of writing on the sky? what is the purpose? you somehow forgot to answer that question.
Life is a test of faith not a scientific investigation into the power of God, God the Almighty regardless of what we delusioned worms beleive, He died for our sins, He did all the hard work for us already, but to justify those who believe in His love and mercy, not to justify materialism and narrow mindedness
>literal millions of pilgrims visit lourdes every year
>fraction of a fraction of a percentage point are cured
if you take a random sample of several million sick people a tiny proportion of them will get lucky
it could be better than that. placebo is a helluva drug.
Magic tricks prove nothing
you know protestants have miracles too?
>Undergoes scientific testing
>Several scientific studies conclude that the image on the fabric has supernatural qualities
Post them
Callahan, P.S. (1981) The Tilma: under infrared-red radiation. CARA studies on popular devotion, Wash. D.C. Vol II: Guadalupan studies, No. 3. 45 pp.
I don't think science is in the business of measuring "supernatural qualities"
You're such a fricking joke
>scientific studies conclude that the image on the fabric has supernatural qualities
>scientific studies
>supernatural qualities
this is an obvious lie.
The studies say that
1. No known painting technique was used to create the image, painting and dying techniques that were used at the time could not have been used to create it
2. The fabric, which is made of "low quality" materials is silky smooth to touch
3. Parts of the image that have had paints applied to them over time have degraded while the original image has not.
4. The image has not had any preservatives applied to the material
5. The cloth was stored in poor conditions for hundreds of years and being repeatedly subjected to events that should have destroyed it (a communist homosexual tried to blow it up by placing dynamite right under it disguised as a bouquet of flowers, the room was severely damaged but the cloth untouched)
6. The pupils of Mary in the image on the cloth have several distinguishable people within them when observed with magnifying lenses with the correct lens distortion you would expect to see when observing the reflections of light in someone's eyes. Applying this level of detail to a piece of cloth far exceeds any known technique today or in the past
Whoa, this sounds like the discovery of the century. Surely the Vatican will let scientists analyse the thing openly to prove these supernatural claims, it'll convert millions!
They have
Seethe and cope more
>En 1982, el restaurador de arte José Sol Rosales examinó la imagen con estereomicroscopía e identificó sulfato de calcio, hollín de pino, en colores blanco y azul, tierras verdes (suciedad), redes hechas de carmín y otros pigmentos, y también oro. Rosales encontró en el trabajo materiales y métodos coincidentes con los de un trabajo humano del siglo XVI.64 Dos siglos antes, en 1751, el pintor Miguel Cabrera, había dictaminado que la imagen no podía explicarse como humanamente hecha, sin que se conozca el protocolo protocientífico que lo haya llevado a dicha afirmación. En 1979 los norteamericanos Philip Callahan y Jody Brant Smith, asociados a un centro católico de estudios marianos, fotografiaron la imagen con cámara infrarroja y no encontraron explicación científica para la hechura del manto, túnica, manos y rostro de la Virgen.
the church in the fricking middle ages wasn't impressed and said it was a painting.
if the technique was soooooo advanced how come literal medieval people didn't give a shit?
also let's conveniently forget how in the 20th century the church sent two of the BEST catholic scientists inItaly and they both came back saying it wasn't supernatural.
also let's conveniently ignore the fact that the church doesn't officially recognize it like it doesn't recognize Fatima because they know full well it's bullshit, but it still makes them money if they are vague.
gtfo deluded christcuck
Are you talking about Our Lady of Guadalupe?
Read
>As more advanced technology has examined it, it's become more credible
>You take Medieval people's word for it instead
You've come full circle and are attacking modern science from the position of the medieval catholic church
>more advanced technology
Which was rather primitive compared to modern technology.
>youtube
Great scientific source. Again, the very foundations of your religion contradict reality. A few magic tricks won't convince me.
That's not global flood and obviously nothing that would wipe out most of life on Earth.
>Great scientific source. Again, the very foundations of your religion contradict reality. A few magic tricks won't convince me.
You seem to be impervious to reason so I thought I would give you a short video presentation instead
>reason
Yes, magic RPG items tested by a bunch of priests are a proof of a divine being that created this shithole of a planet because it supposedly loves us so much.
You haven't read anything I've posted, you're arguing against a strawman.
And certain parts of some studies contradict others and do not mention others.
The thing about claims like this is they need to be subject to multiple verification to be taken seriously. The painting has yet to be subject tot he full range of possible tests my modern methods.
I admit, Catholic miracles make me question my protestantism. I cope by telling myself they are works of Satan.
Miracles happen a lot in Orthodoxy as well. Not sure about the Protestants. Cathos certainly don't have the spiritual monopoly.
If god is truly shown through the pope then I have no fricking idea how anyone could be a catholic.
I take It you have only practiced this religión ofcourse.
The evil forces in Oyish are desperate with all the Christian threads, and are attacking with Hitler/nazi threads.
>Residents of Assiut, Egypt were awakened in the middle of the night on August 17, 2000 by an exceptionally bright light coming from Saint Mark's Coptic Orthodox Church. Those who looked toward the church saw an apparition of Mary between the church's two towers, accompanied by large, glowing white doves (a traditional symbol of peace and the Holy Spirit) flying around her.
>The figure of Mary emanated a brilliant white light, and so did the halo around Mary's head. Witnesses said they smelled the fragrance of incense
>The apparitions continued to appear on various nights over the next several months, until January 2001. People often gathered outside the church at night to wait to see if an apparition would occur. Since the apparitions usually took place in the middle of the night, those hoping to see them often camped out overnight on the local streets or on nearby rooftops. While they waited, they prayed and sang worship songs together.
Damn son, multiple apparitions to thousands of people. I guess I'll covert to the Oriental Orthodoxy, the one true church!
Any videos?
You got it!
The evidence is some light? Where's the Holy Virgin? Where are the doves?
Much better than the "sun dancing"
How? Give me video footage of a miracle by the heretic Oriental Orthodox. They don't accept homoousion. Do you even realize that?
John Chang, taoist. Google fu him.
> Inb4 it's the power of Satan
>John Chang
Is this a joke? I'm asking for a miracle and you give me a racist name?
Guy makes Fire out of his hands
X'D even heh
You mean like this?
https://www.wired.com/video/watch/primitive-technology-fire
>Thousands of people witness it
>Give me proof
moron.
Why should I accept their witness testimony? All I see is a floating light balloon. Thousands of these were floating across the world on New Year's Eve. Were those miracles as well?
Maybe it's just some illiterate Egyptians going crazy over a light balloon, lol.
>Maybe it's just some illiterate Egyptians going crazy over a light balloon, lol.
As opposed to illiterate Portuguese peasants literally looking at the sun and having their retinas burned? Kek.
Are the Japanese also iliterate? Japanese are great scientists and magicians. How did they get "fooled" (as you are implying)?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Akita
Are Indians also illiterate?
>According to tradition, the first apparition is said to have occurred to a young boy delivering buttermilk to a man, who lived far away. During his travels, the boy stopped to rest beside a lake that was shaded by a Banyan tree. A beautiful woman, carrying a child, is said to have appeared, and asked the boy for some milk to feed her child, which he gave. When he reached the home for his milk delivery, he apologised for the delay and that there would be less milk in his pot. But when they opened the lid of the milk pot, the container was brimming with milk.
>The second apparition is alleged to have occurred a few years later. A lame boy would sell buttermilk to passing travellers, who would pause in the shade of a large Banyan tree, to escape the heat of the day. However, he had no customers. According to the account, suddenly, an ethereal woman, holding a child appeared before him, and asked for a cup of buttermilk. He gave her a cup, which she fed to her child. The woman asked the boy to go to Nagapattinam, and find a certain Catholic man in the town, and tell him to build a chapel at Vailankanni in her honour. Apparently cured, the boy ran to Nagapattinam, where he found the man and told him his story. The Catholic men of Nagapattinam subsequently built a thatched chapel at Vailankanni, dedicated to Mary under the title of "Our Lady of Good Health".
>In the 17th century, a Portuguese merchant vessel sailing from Macau to Ceylon was caught in a severe storm in the Bay of Bengal. The sailors prayed fervently for Mary, Star of the Sea to save them, and promised to build a church in her honor wherever they could land. The sea became calm, and their ship landed near Vailankanni on 8 September, the Feast of the Nativity of Mary. To honor their promise, the Portuguese rebuilt the thatched chapel into a stone church. The church was later renovated twice in the early 20th century.
>Immediately concedes the point that the Portuguese were stupid peasants faking it, doesn’t even try to dispute it
Papist integrity, everyone.
>implicitly concedes the point by no addressing any of the additional examples
That’s not the point. Let me recap things for you.
Anon
>If apparitions are what prove Catholicism to be the true Christianity, would the same not apply for these Copts in Egypt who also said to have experienced a divine apparition?
(You)
>Hmph. They were probably just stupid illiterate peasants looking at a light balloon.
Anon
>Would that same logic not apply to the Portuguese peasants who stared at the sun, something that is known to damage your eyes and confuse them?
(You)
>W-well, uhhhhh, yeah... What about this thing in Japan?!
The dispute was never if Our Lady of Akita was real. The dispute was over your flippant dismissal of one of the most famous apparitions in the history of the Catholic Church, recognized by the whole hierarchy up to and including the Pope, by just ignoring it and bringing up something else when someone called it into question. If you move from point to point like nothing happened and just bring up something else without refuting it, why should I believe you)
Fatima people dont' even know what they saw, other than three lying little girls which the Pope, a lying jackass who couldn't give a shit one way or another about faith promoting peasant bullshit, happened to approve.
Sorry, you need to stop being so homeschool. Not everyone is wound up into your point of view.
Fatima is not impressive.
>Create headcanon
>Argue against it
>This is the best counter-argument he could muster
Embarrassing. You should be thankful your priest doesn’t see how you’re making a mockery of the faith.
You created a fictional argument between two people in your mind and then concluded I was wrong because of it.
>he’s now denying what he said like all his posts aren’t visible
Sad.
I can use Inspect Element too.
Delusional cope
I accept your concession.
Shit happens to pagans, buddhists, taoists, hindus and gnostics more oftentimes that catholics. Catholics have monies to make It public tho
Hinduism has as many miracles as Catholicism, so this is not a certain proof.
Hinduism itself is a miracle. Catholics in India are constantly doing ghar wapsi. Abrahamic religions are a joke. Christianity in India is finished.
Catholicism is boring as frick that's why. plus I don't want to learn Latin or become celibate.
Why not? Is porn more important than Heaven?
Not that cut-and-dried
Latin is easy. Almost half of English is Latin. There's nothing to lose from learning Latin.
Celibacy is fine. You don't have to be a monk. Just have sex for good purposes. Why else?
I'm not the person who brought up Latin, I'm referring to your misconception of what Heaven is. But while we're on the subject, Latin is not "easy" and you have no idea from whence Latin is derived.
Whence is Latin derived? And what does that have to do with Catholicism?
Are you seriously asking what Latin has to do with Catholicism?
I'm asking what Latin's origin has to do with Catholicism?
Because, respectfully, you don't know where Latin comes from and you don't know where Catholicism comes from?
What are you even talking about? Speak directly.
I'm not talking about them. You were born a Christian. You rejected Christianity. How can you reject something you don't know about?
>You were born a Christian. You rejected Christianity. How can you reject something you don't know about?
Actually, I wasn't but even if I was how would that be an argument for it's truthfulness? Should people born into pedo cults also accept them unconditionally?
You don't accept them unconditionally. You study the tradition you were born into. You were born into a Christian country so you study the Bible. If you were born in a Muslim country, study the Koran. Then if you have problems, ask your local leader. If you have persistent problems, then look for other answers. But you haven't done the first step. You are confused heretic and you need to repent. You do this by reading the Bible.
>You are confused heretic and you need to repent
No, I don't need to do anything.
What are YOU 'talking' about? If you're the same person who brought up 'porn and heaven,' and how you believe them to be mutually exclusive, That is what I responded to! You brought up Latin, not I! Then I switched subjects out of respect for your incoherence! I'm telling you that Latin is not "easy" because you don't know what Latin is, and the various layers of occult nonsense that factor into its construction and reconstruction! There's a reason why courts use Latin phrases, and then feign plausible deniability!
So? It has layers? So does English. It's fun.
Why do you want to go to Hell?
Wait, so there's separate "Hell" for every country? If I was born to a israeli family, read Talmud and said that false prophet Yeshua is in Gehenna, boiling in excrements, I wouldn't go to hell right? It all depends on the culture I was born into?
>The relationship of the Church with the israeli People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the israeli People, 326 "the first to hear the Word of God." 327 The israeli faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the israelites "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ", 328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable." 329
>840 And when one considers the future, God's People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.
[Hell] is closed
Using the Bible to prove the Bible has to be the dumbest thing any human has ever or will ever do
Why? If we can use science to prove science, why not use the Bible to prove the Bible?
this is such a confused slogan that it's not even wrong.
Yes, it's not wrong. That's what I said.
be honest: do you think this was a witty comeback? does it count as such in your circles?
Don't you believe in the Bible? Are you not Christian?
Why would he?
Have you read the Bible?
No, why would I? It's an interesting read, although I am familiar with contents kinda
of course I am not a christian, don't insult me with the assumption. what does this have to do with anything, especially with meaningless expressions like 'proving the bible' you have just used? you can only prove a claim. is the bible a claim? because until now it was a book.
learn to clearly formulate your thoughts, if any.
How will you learn about a religion if you don't study it? Why haven't you read the Bible?
Did you read Spider-Man?
Spider-Man is not a religion. You're using it as an example because you think it's stupid.
How do you prove the Bible? By referring to other parts of the Bible. Metatextuality, transtextuality, intertextuality. Understand?
there's no such thing as 'proving the X' where X is not a claim. basic semantics.
The Bible is the set of axioms from which we derive Christian reality. Yes or no?
No. Christianity, by definition, means a man or woman follows the words of Jesus Christ EXCLUSIVELY, to the exclusion of every other set of words! Savvy?
But the words of Jesus Christ refer back to the Old Testament. So, we have to rely on the whole Bible. Alongside following Biblical tradition developed through the Catholic Church.
Esus (no 'j' in Latin) doesn't explicitly 'refer' to the Old Covenant because there was no New Covenant until Esus created one (1). If you're referring to Esus referring back to Akhenaten (true name of 'Moses),' why not ask yourself why Akhenaten crafted six hundred thirteen (613) laws and not merely "ten commandments?"
Sure, why? What does Egyptian pagan gods have to do with Jesus Christ anyway?
What does the Vatican have to do with Jesus Christ?
It is the Church of Jesus Christ established by St. Peter. Duh.
False
>The Bible is the set of axioms from which we derive Christian reality.
you should take your meds. reality cannot be defined, it is what it is. and you don't seem to know what the word 'axiom' means.
>Yes or no?
of course not. the bible is a collection of stories with some poetry on top.
Okay, have you read Quran? Vedas? Talmud? Vinaya Pitaka? Avesta?
I have read the bible in multiple languages. but it would not matter even if I hadn't. 'proving the bible' and 'proving science' are meaningless blather. try to formulate what you want to say more clearly.
Anon, "science" is just a method of experimentation and observation. It is quite literally a means to prove something.
in before mysterious appearances instead of clear writing in the sky or something similarly unambiguous.
... oh wait, I'm late.
>Literal photographic evidence
>Rick and Morty atheists will still deny Christ and the Virgin Mary
Your evidence is a weather balloon? This is from a Oriental Church, idiot.
>I-It's a weather balloon, it doesn't matter that they turned off all light pollution in the area! It doesn't matter that the president of Egypt says he saw it himself!!!
>That 1968 Photo is just CGI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Only if you turn off light pollution can you see a weather balloon. Look at the dove. Clearly plastic.
Where did the president of egypt say he saw it?
Many of these photos are either clearly fakes or at least touched up, like the one with the copy-pasted doves.
>>That 1968 Photo is just CGI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Photo manipulation has existed as long as photography.
>Literal photographic and hours of video evidence
>Christards will still doubt that Spider-Man is the savior of New York
She has a fro?
That's a halo
It's just a deceptive angle. See the picture from the front. Oriental Orthodoxy is a false church.
You're israeli
Here's your miracle, bro.
So the actual Mary comes to Earth from Heaven and somehow has a halo as they are depicted in paintings? The halos in painting were merely markers to tell the viewer who was holy versus who was just a regular slob. They weren't meant to be depictions of literal objects. It's hilarious that whoever doctored up that photo put one on Mary. How embarrassing.
God has never made his presence known.
Frick off back to /x/.
Your religion is false. It goes against what we now about humanity, biology, history and genetics.
Prove it.
The burden is on those who make the extraordinary claim. If you claim a virgin israeliteess gave birth to a magic israelite who died and came alive again after his corpse would have begun to stink the burden is on you to prove it.
What is there to prove? Christianity is obviously a product of its era, not something universal. There were never people living hundreds of years as claimed in the Bible, there was never global flood, this world wasn't created by a peaceful all-loving being - life literally evolves through death, suffering and extinction events.
When you think for a moment this religion makes absolutely no sense. Christian god wasn't even powerful enough to stop the spread of islam that almost completely replaced your supposedly true religion in its place of origin.
Confirmation bias
>there was never global flood,
There's archaeological evidence and independent third party cultural attestation to a flood
>Christian god wasn't even powerful enough to stop the spread of islam that almost completely replaced your supposedly true religion in its place of origin.
Islam is Arianism which is a sect of Christianity
Cope.
There literally couldn't be global flood. It's a fictional story.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/evidence-for-a-flood-102813115/
The burden of proof lies in you.
Imagine not knowing every other religion claims miracles too.
The fact that Catholics harp to the point of jerking off over vague, probably fake, rare social hysteria events to explain why their religion is the right one is proof that it's not.
>Guys but have you heard of Fatima
Oh my God, I thought your religion was about Jesus of Nazareth.
Catholics are pathetic sheep.
Only Catholics revere Mary as a semi-godly figure, so Marian apparitions prove that Catholicism is correct
This is literally how Satanism is defined in the Christian scripture.
But no, one or two sightings of maybe a ghost maybe just a comet, is not proof of anything.
And no, not only Catholics venerate Mary, and wait, I thought Catholics DIDN'T "worship" Mary.
Lolololol what a mess.
Catholics do worship Mary though
She is the highest saint and most venerated soul in heaven
Right until you call them out for it then they pilpul and claim only to venerate her.
>Marian apparitions prove that Catholicism is correct
Mary is in the bosom of abraham with all the other saints. She is dead and cannot hear your prayers. You are talking about demonic deceptions to keep you in your idolatry.
The Catholic Church created the Bible
Without them you have no ability to determine what texts are valid and which are apocryphal
Technically, Constantine created the first 'Bible.'
>The Catholic Church created the Bible
Incorrect, and the books of the Bible were established hundreds of years before the politician chaired invention of the catholic church called the Nicene council. You could reconstruct the entire Bible from just the writings of the church 100 years before it, actually. The nicene council rubber stamped what was already known.
>Incorrect, and the books of the Bible were established hundreds of years before the politician chaired invention of the catholic church called the Nicene council. You could reconstruct the entire Bible from just the writings of the church 100 years before it, actually. The nicene council rubber stamped what was already known.
How do you determine what's valid and what's apocryphal?
>How do you determine what's valid and what's apocryphal?
By what was cited by the church for hundreds of years before the Nicene council.
So, the answer is the Catholic Church then
>So, the answer is the Catholic Church then
No, the catholic church has nothing to do with the church before Constantine. They don't even agree on fundamental issues.
This is just made up protshit coping
>This is just made up protshit coping
I mean it's pretty black and white. Here is the original church. You have nothing to do with that church, objectively.
Catholics church only believes in wars of self-defence
Still in complete disagreement with the original church.
crusading isn't defending
Yes it was
Yeah genociding the Waldensians and Cathars was merely self defense goyim, believe it
Evidence the Shroud is not the burial shroud of Jesus:
>Uses a complex herringbone weave that was not found during that time period
>Contains blood stains, contradicting Hebrew laws regarding the cleaning of corpses
>The depicted person has unrealistic body proportions
>Independent radiocarbon tests from three different universities concluded with 95% certainty that the material dates from 1260-1390 AD. The claim that they only analysed burned portions is often claimed, but never substantiated.
>Contradicts the scriptural account of Jesus' burial, which was that he was wrapped in multiple cloths, with a separate one for the face (John 20:6)
The face and body would also have been distorted from the draping/wrapping techniques.
It is a real shitty fake. Only complete morons think it is real.
Because I feel like God is out-of-reach for some reason and that I’m not deserving of his mercy. Or I’ll tell myself that God knows I’m only appealing to him because I’m desperate and that once I’m relatively satisfied I’ll forget about him. God is oh so close but yet so far. What’s the Catholic position on asking for intercession from Saints rather than praying directly to God? Maybe I could go for that.
Many or even most prayers are to saints instead of directly to God
great day to post this thread Christcucks bahahahahahaha
They have been race mixing for centuries, but your problem is with us gays? You sound like a cuck just like the catholics
Nobody cares about his childish progressive views. gays should be decriminalized WOAH G E N I U S what's next? The war in ukrain needs to stops and we should end world hunger?
actually, that's an interesting take: what is the christian explanation as to why their god does not manifest itself anymore?
>god cured my cancer
Why does he give it in the first place? Why cure some rando rather than suffering children?
If these were attributed to something Hindu you would probably dismiss them or attribute the events to Satan.
If you want to believe in God without being a moron, read Spinoza
Or just go right to hinduism.
What isn't moronic about Hinduism
Why do Catholic miracles always surround Mary?
Feminist cult, mommy issues.
Shroud of Turin?
Because catholicism is idolatrious, they worship the dead and the dying god lucifer in place of Jesus the God of the living and the God of the dead, they sing and pray to the queen of heaven , worshiping Mary as God when that is unscriptural and blasphemous and thereby open themself up to demonic appearences after the flesh by which the demons who hunt those of weak faith to allire them into idolatry and worship of demons like the appearances of Mary which is just demons or fallen angels larping as a saint to deceive those who are naive about the power of spiritual entities that in our time show up as aliens but are the same demons that have been here since ancient times
Can god make his presence known to Francis by telling him to just shut the frick up
He just said homosexuality aint a sin, he cant shut up ,the devil got too many massages to communicate to the naive and willfully ignorant
Saints 500 years ago
>animals obeyed their commands
>saved a town by slaying a dragon
>turned objects into gold
Saints from the invention of photography, sound and video recording
>founded a church in Africa
>helped a bunch of kids by getting food from donations
>a kid who prayed to him once was cured of cancer 2 years later
and christcucks still wonder why....
If your faith is the size of a mustard seed... We are living in the apostacy where the faith is being challenged by paganism which is why people have the shape of godliness but deny the power thereof because our faith got weaker than the faith of the saints before the modern era, because miracles arent meant to be proven sceintifically but to be recieved with faith and give glory to God, the mountains will move and the seas part for the generation with enough faith to follow God power with childlike faith but to the skeptics all evidence of God is kept behind a vail of ignorance that the devil maintains to blind the unbelieving, blessed are those who have believed without saying , said Jesus to Thomas, its the same hurdle that people today have to step over on their path to salvation because miracles happen everyday,i too exoerienced didvine help dealing with ayylmaos and sleep paralysis as well as spiritual guidance in times of anger and deppresion due to clown world habbenings
>God doesn't show up not because he doesn't exist, but because he's testing us
>thus the less God there is the more we have to believe it!
self fulfilling prophecy mentality
Not really more like
>God provides everything for us and allows us to manifest our free will
>Thus enabling us to manifest good and evil freely depending on our own initiative
>God showed up even to die for us that we can experience a oure spritiual life removed from wickedness staining our souls
>His works are known through out the world like the global flood and judgement of the nephilim and His sacrifice and ressurection
>Provides wise prophets and saints to give prophecies of important events to come and His Holy Ghost to guide us trhough our spritiual life
>Prophecy is always fulfiled regardless of wether anyone believes them or not
everything you believe in was written in a heavily flawed set of different texts of unknown origin.
sorry pal, the only reason you believe is because you were conditioned by society, otherwise you'd be part of another religion.
the sooner you realize your faith was a result of your upbringing and you really don't have any real reason to believe one thing or another, the sooner you'll drop this LARP
The origin is of the Holy Ghost, the only thing society conditioned me to do, starting with the prussian school system, was to reject everything spiritual and accept everything material, a generatikn brought up without faith, making us easy pickings for satans minions, walking through life with no spiritual existence and blinded by worldly things and thereby unable to comprehend the spiritual origin of existence, intelligent design is as real as flat earth as many billions as the masons may spend on deception tactics, truth is truth,because He is, He that is, and there is no other, regardless of the awareness level of mankind
>blinded by wordly things
i.e. the only things that are proven to exist
Even the cia could debunk that by their expertiments they did with astral projectuon and remote viewing
>their expertiments they did with astral projectuon and remote viewing
which failed
Not according to their own documents
https://banned.video/watch?id=63ca85d75b6e011d0c103021
>documents
>posts video instead of documents
usual schizo tactic, to be expected from israeli fairy tales believers
Ur just diverting from the evidence of the video, you got your documents in there to check out at your leasure but no
there are no links in that video and the video is just a slideshow of mostly unrelated schizophrenic images made with MSPaint
You can find this stuff everwhere m8
https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7e4g3/found-page-25-of-the-cias-gateway-report-on-astral-projection
>opinion piece
>instead of narrating the facts it starts rambling and telling some exaggerated made up emotional narrative
>filled with unrelated and meaningless images
>pseudoscience youtube video
>NFT of the page being sold
>the report itself presents no scientific evidence and no precise methodology, the only citations at the end are fricking fantasy boooks
you will believe anything, huh?
Its one of many articles you can find on the topic, dont expect it to give you all the answers
>bro it doesn't matter if every single thing I'm sending you is false and batshit crazy!!! there are plenty others on the internet!!!!
if you yourself cannot link something halfway decent why do you even believe this shit?
lol, just admit you've watched too much history channel
Both of the articles i linked made their point, but like i said dont expect anyone to give you all their answers but the point stands the cia has been dabbling in the spiritual dimension for decades
you linked a video and an opinion piece which provided zero evidence of anything.
"making a point" is argumentative vocabulary, I don't give a shit about the points they make. if they are saying unproven stuff then it doesn't matter
I gave you links to look into the matter not a peer reviewed scientific journal article, you should give a shit because the spiritual world rules the physical world
>I gave you speculative crap
thanks, but I don't base my life decisions on that
If you had the faith to make the first step you could turn theory into practise yourself and see truth behind the veil but its your first step to make
how come everyone who supposedly believes and sees through the veil is a fricking loser or barely normal human being that never amounts to anything in life?
if your practice genuinely made people better we would have plenty of data, unfortunately you're a blind believer
Because what is behind the veil is grander than the dead matter of the matrix
>Prophecy is always fulfilled
except when they are not
Time is a thing
they say Trotsky was the most far-sighted visionary out of all bolsheviks, because some of his prophecies still haven't come true.
Doesnt compare
>reee reee reee that's totally different for reasons I cannot articulate because they are all bullshit reee reee - t. you
One is a prophecy given out of imagination the other is given by God, even if you are faithless there is a difference
so until then, you are basically a moron for thinking they've come true, right?
Right now we only got end times prophecies remaining, one of which is the destruction of damascus for example another is the rise of the beast system
To you, what's the most remarkable prophecy in the Bible?
Protestants figured out that stuff was bullshit 500 years ago
Protestants protested the idolatrious practises in catholicism like the pope making himself the middle man between God and mankind, taking the glory of Jesus upon himself like an antichrist, and worshiping the deceased saints, blasphemous mass practises, like drinking wine and bread as an allegory for eating Jesus
>like drinking wine and bread as an allegory for eating Jesus
This isn't an accurate description. The Catholic understanding of the Eucharist is that the "substance" of the bread and wine, the aspect of it which defines what it "is", changes into the flesh and blood of Christ (they call this "transubstantiation"). So the piece of bread is no longer bread but is literally Christ's body, that is, the bread is literally God, so they also put it on display in the church and worship it, which they call "Eucharistic adoration."
The Reformed rejected this but held that Christ is actually present in the sacrament, but he is present spiritually and that we attain him by faith, rather than the bread literally transforming into something else. Lutherans hold a different view that is closer to the Catholic position and I do not understand it well enough to try explaining it. The idea that it's all a pure symbol was a minority view.
>Only
Pentecostals got all kinds of spooky stuff happening to them
both of these miracles have been deboonked
>15 bucks for a ticket to heaven bro
Holy frick! How cringe a "Christian" who thinks he is a Christian and doesn't even know the basics about "his" own religion...
You have a long road ahead of you, so you better stop posting stupid shit while you don't know about Christianity.
Oh look, made up bullshit.