Where God doesn't know about some things aka like God not knowing what Sodom or Gomorrah doing before looking. Where the devil can trick God but God has the last laugh. Where God doesn't know the entire future. Where God felt tricked and betrayed with Adam and Eve. Where there are some places God isn't such as hell.
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Why do the mods keep deleting my messages ?
>like God not knowing what Sodom or Gomorrah doing before looking
Huh? He didn't come there to look, but to offer them repentance. Like he does every time he "asks" or "checks" sinners.
>Is there a form of Christianity where God isn't Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient?
There are form of Christian heresy where the Son is not believed to be such, but God as such, that would be really weird. If there is a place he isn't at, a thing he didn't observe or a thing that limits his potence, he's not God by definition.
Why is omniscient God asking questions he knew the answer of before time itself?
To allow people to address it. For example Adam, when questioned where he is and why he's done what he has done, had multiple chances to repent this way. And instead he hid and blamed others.
The one exception was Job, where God asked him questions precisely to make Job realize that he can't address them and that he's a mere mortal.
But he already knows how they will address it. You have no choice to repent if God already knows if you will or not, only the illusion of choice
>You have no choice to repent if God already knows if you will or not
Yes you do. God knows the result of your choice. Implying it was your choice.
Anon.
Yes, she did. God just knew she won't choose it.
>Yes, she did. God just knew she won't choose it.
Is there any possible scenario where she could have chosen opposite and surprised God?
No. God knew the result of her choice. Keyword: choice.
You version of "choice" is akin to a chose you own adventure book. All the choices are already known to the author but not to you. You are given "choices" to progress through the story but the author already knows all the results of any choice you make. Omniscience is the author not only knowing the choices which are available to you, but which ones you will choose. If the author is omniscient there is no choice you can make outside of the author's knowledge.
While it appears to you that you are making a choice the reality is you are simply moving along a predefined(by the nature of omniscience) track which the author has created. Your choice is an illusion because you were ultimately incapable of choosing opposite of what the author already knew you would chose.
>All the choices are already known to the author but not to you.
The author makes the choices in the book. In reality, we make them. God just knows them. Think of it as a time traveler.
>If the author is omniscient there is no choice you can make outside of the author's knowledge.
I reject the idea of the 'author', but besides that, author's knowledge doesn't affect you. You do what you do. God simply knows that thing you're going to freely choose. Again, as a time traveler would.
>pre-defined
No.
You're obviously struggling to understand. You don't make any choices when you have no option to chose opposite. If you reject the idea of an author you reject God. The choice is an illusion, real to you, but ultimately entirely rested within the will of God.
Consider this. Can you make a choice which is opposite to God's Will? Not his strictures and law, but the Will of God himself.
If God knew you would repent from your sinful ways did you ever have the ability to not?
I understand fine, we've had this discussion before. You keep implying God must know the outcome because he has forced it to be so, because that's the only experience you can relate to knowing an outcome of a choice. And I keep telling you tht there's nothing binding about other person's knowledge - a time traveler just watched you post again and again and each time you did it freely despite him knowing that you did so.
>Can you make a choice which is opposite to God's Will?
Yes. I do them every day.
>If God knew you would repent from your sinful ways did you ever have the ability to not?
Yes. And I did not choose the ability.
If a time traveler knows you will eventually convert to Christianity, did you ever have the ability not to?
Well if you can make choices contrary to the Will of God God is by nature not omnipotent. God must know the outcome because of the nature of omniscience. And the time traveler analogy falls flat because the time traveler is not omniscient, but if the time traveler was omniscient there is no ability for you to choose opposite of what the traveler already knows will happen. Bear in mind that God encompasses all of time and before time with his knowledge. If God knows you will make a certain choice there is nothing you can do to stop it fufilling God's omnipotence and Omniscience.
I think you're thinking your sins are somehow outside of God's control. This is not the case because God knew you would sin and you have no ability to un chose a choice.
>Well if you can make choices contrary to the Will of God God is by nature not omnipotent.
Nope. Not a single thing he can't do. Including tolerating disobedience.
>God must know the outcome because of the nature of omniscience
Correct.
>if the time traveler was omniscient there is no ability for you to choose opposite of what the traveler already knows will happen
And is that by virtue of the time-traveller?
>If God knows you will make a certain choice there is nothing you can do to stop it fufilling God's omnipotence and Omniscience.
Obviously I can't stop God from knowing things... why would I? My task is just to freely choose something based on my volition. And God will know, like a time traveler, not like an author. Because his science comes from observing, not determining.
You know what? I think you anons may be right. Or at the very least I haven’t thought of it that way. Thank you for explaining
>Well if you can make choices contrary to the Will of God God is by nature not omnipotent
Not true, we can only act contrary to his will because he lets us. Everything is within his will in the sense that he wills us to have the freedom to act outside of his will. This sort of thing isn't easy to word but it's not a contradictory concept, God chooses inaction all the time even if didn't have to, it's part of his mercifulness.
I'll chime in here. It is certainly difficult to put into words, but this is a related point.
God being omnipotent doesn't mean he *has* to control everything. He *can*, but if he *had to* then he wouldn't be omnipotent. An important and subtle part of exercising power of any kind is discretion.
Not that anon, but your idea of time is very linear. God knew your choices "before" you were born, but that doesn't mean you didn't choose.
There is no before or after to an eternal being, it's continuous. Slaves are compelled to do do the will of their slaver, free men obey of their own volition
God wants obedient servants, not slaves. Forgiveness means nothing if you have no choice in the matter.
Omnipotence makes free will possible, it doesn't preclude it.
>You don't make any choices when you have no option to chose opposite
But you could've. Didn't isn't the same as couldn't have. Just because God can see what you do doesn't mean it wasn't completely your choice, I don't get how this is such a mindfrick for some people, there are far more difficult implications to God than free will
Dumb.
For example: If God already knew he would send Jesus did Eve have the choice to not heed the serpent?
God is what he is.
God asks questions He knows about to engage or to get people to make the right choices.
All three of those things are later additions to the attributes of God as the israelites moved away from polytheism toward monotheism. It's apparent everywhere in the old testament that God is just one of many Gods vying for supremacy.
It's called Open Theism
Various gnostic sects arguably.