If I were an ancient human and saw lightning and rainbows, I would invent God, too.
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If I were an ancient human and saw lightning and rainbows, I would invent God, too.
Talk religion
Talk religion
If I were an ancient human and saw lightning and rainbows, I would invent God, too.
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Same. I remember my sister told me that thunder was the sound of god bowling when I was a real little kid and nothing made more sense to me. Lots of people would never correct that misconception if they were never explained it’s the sound of lightning.
I mean, is it really so far fetched there are things above man just as there are things beneath man?
Maybe youre just doing the spiritual version of the incel walk where your spiritual eyes are perpetually downcast.
>above
>beneath
What does this mean?
Things more sophisticated than humans vs things less sophisticated than humans.
If you werent so dishonest you would see the starkness of where Man stands in the world.
Yeah its pretty far fetched considering people dont make up complex anthropomorphic beings.
Euhemerization is FAAAAR more likely to have occurred, but youre too stupid to use that as a criticism.
You are simply wrong.
Ever wonder why Shepherds have a shepherd god or why warriors have warrior gods? Are those gods explanations or are they venerated ancestors who became embellished to the point of deification over time?
What is more likely? Thats what I thought.
is it really far fetched that we invented gods to explain things we didn’t understand at the time? The fact that every culture has their own unique way of using gods to explain the world is proof that we invented it.
it's not far fetched, it's just an assumption
if we take the idea that we today as society are the pinnacle of biological and technological advancement, then it's only logical to deem people who existed long ago as ignorant and stupid, who either invented things (like gods) to explain something that we today understand in a different way (like neutral forces) or just deem them wrong if they talk about "unscientific" stuff (people living for 100s of years, cryptids, giants, spiritual entities, etc.)
>I would invent God
then you'd be the first in history to do so
pretty moronic thing to do, but everybody is free to do as they please
so you think all religions are real? Every culture worships a god that isn’t real? And we just coincidentally also invented leprechauns, fairies, Santa Claus, and a bunch of other fairytale bullshit, but all gods are real?? Lol
>so you think all religions are real?
yes, every religion that exists is real
>Every culture worships a god that isn’t real?
no, every religion worships a god (or gods) that are real
>And we just coincidentally also invented leprechauns, fairies, Santa Claus, and a bunch of other fairytale bullshit
no, i think all of these beings existed (or possibly even today exist) in one form or another
>but all gods are real??
yes, all gods that are real are real
you sound very mad, calm down and try again
>all fairytales are real
This is what my intellect has reduced you to. Your delusion is only full display. Since all fairytales and human imaginations are real, can you tell me where Spiderman is? I wanna meet him.
>This is what my intellect has reduced you to.
the only thing your intellect reduces is the time i have to spend on a toilet, since your replies are the best laxative
>Since all fairytales and human imaginations are real, can you tell me where Spiderman is? I wanna meet him.
he doesnt exist, Stan Lee invented Spider-man and no one who has ever read his comics ever thought that Spider-man exists
on the other hand, beings that your pathetic mind classifies as "fairytales" have been documented throughout history (like leprchauns in Celtic culture or giants in North America, here is a video discussing the latter subject https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSHYsA-PEsQ)
do you know what are real fairytales? evolution, big bang, heliocentrism, globe earth, holocaust, moon landings - things which you unironically accept as fact, not because you verified their existence, but because you were psy-oped into swallowing those ideas, all the while thinking you were being le intellectual for doing so
absolutely hilarious
>if you don’t know who started the lie, it’s real
KEK
>it is a lie...because...it just IS, OKAY?!?!
mental state of a child
>So as long as America collapsed and people later believe Spiderman was an actual deity we all worshipped, you would agree with their misconception?
no, if people found texts which talk about Spider-man being a real deity and was worshipped, along with historical, geological and archeological evidence to support such a notion, then i'd have no problem believing it to be so
> At some point you have to either accept you're capable of being deceived, or commit to being dishonest.
right back at you
With the impossibility of knowing the origin of anything in the past, it's 100% possible for a future civilization to find a picture of some guys spiderman shrine, or find recovered movie tapes and think they're representations of what we believe happened, it's also entirely possible we've done the same. That doesn't change the premise, or the reality of the analogy which you refuse to confront.
>Right back at you
Of course it is, when speaking to an idiot like you I may as well just reply to myself with no u and get the same engagement.
>With the impossibility of knowing the origin of anything in the past, it's 100% possible for a future civilization to find a picture of some guys spiderman shrine, or find recovered movie tapes and think they're representations of what we believe happened, it's also entirely possible we've done the same.
no
we know that Spider-man is a creation of Stan Lee, we know Spider-man is a fictional character and any shrine or movie tapes that could be recovered in the future can easily be scrutinized and shown to be nothing but an objects of entertainment with no real connections to the real world
this idea works nice in your head, but in reality, it has no foundation
>That doesn't change the premise, or the reality of the analogy which you refuse to confront.
there is no analogy to confornt, you are trying to equate apples and oranges, just stop
>Of course it is, when speaking to an idiot like you I may as well just reply to myself with no u and get the same engagement.
please do not reply to an idiot like me when your superior intellect has led you to conclusion that fictional comic book charcter from the 20th century can be mistaken for an actual deity
Yes, key word is we know that, because we aren't a future civilization working on discovered scraps. This is basic logic you would have to knowingly disregard to continue dodging the main point of the analogy so you can keep acting the fool. Since you're being deliberately obtuse, and completely unwilling to confront this in an intellectual manner, kindly stop insulting my intelligence by replying to me with this parody of logic and just stay silent.
>Uh ACKSHYALLY YOU THINK SPIDERMAN COULD BE REAL
Also I like how you thought this was making you look smart, but it just revealed that you're too fricking dumb to actually get the analogy and lack the mind to comprehend how the changes of time might affect the way people study the past and how they understand it. It also really shows that you haven't ever read a firsthand source(because many historical documents have misconceptions of this sort based on cultural ignorance even in the time where those people were living), nor do you have enough basic b***h experience to know that we have spread bigger misconceptions about the most famous deities known to man based on this lack of understanding in the recent past.
>Inb4 "you're running away"
If you pretend to be this deliberately fricking obtuse, or are just naturally this stupid I don't see the point wasting my time even thinking about what you post. I say this with the utmost disdain and confidence that I am right:
This short exchange has without a doubt proved you don't have a single intelligent thought in your mind not given to you by others. I am very serious when I tell you not to reply again, I'm not going to read your post before I continue insulting you.
So as long as America collapsed and people later believe Spiderman was an actual deity we all worshipped, you would agree with their misconception? At some point you have to either accept you're capable of being deceived, or commit to being dishonest.
Stan Lee didn't invent shit, he just held the rights for spiderman.
This is the best argument religitards can make. Humans invent stories and fairytales all the time, but not gods! No one has ever invented religion, even though it would be useful to do so!
This is it. This is what makes them crack. This is what activates their unconscious defense mechanisms to completely shut of their rational thinking in order to preserve their delusions. It’s really enlightening to see how the monkey mind operates.
All labels are invented. I assume you mean you would assign agency to events like lightning. Since the human brain is optimized to model other people we can argue that anthropomorphizing is the most effective way to use the brain to model phenomena. There is also apparent agency in the world and the world is contained within the concept of God so God has apparent agency.
what a cope lol. You don’t know how to handle the fact that even if god wasn’t real, humans still would have invented him regardless
>we can argue that anthropomorphizing is the most effective way to use the brain to model phenomena
…or that’s just the simplistic form that’s easier to understand, it’s not actually the correct model. As an adult you should be able to understand lightning doesn’t have agency and is an electrical spark to balance out ions like any other electrical spark. At least after it’s explained to you.
I lost so many brain cells reading this thread, lets see if I can still post
Once you start to look at things this way, it's everywhere and you grasp the true nature of religion. As an ancient person, there's no secular atheistic explanation for
>planets
>fire
>weather
>fate
>existence
>birth and death
on and on and on. Then there's the whole world of animal life which is eerily parallel to humans (an effect exaggerated by pattern recognition) including animals that literally mimic humans. Ancient man lacked the sort of explanation for this that excludes all unknown or magical forces, like a modernoid would have.
I thought fire was a bad example since we observe how it happens but we literally have a myth about a god that brought us fire lol
runaway chain reactions are intuitive if you're standing on a mountain but not when one type of material turns into a completely different one
>implying modern "science" has sufficiently explained lightning and rainbows.
we know the conditions that allow for it to occur and the basic physical explanation and can replicate it. They’re not supernatural phenomena that only occur with divine intervention. It’s clearly old myths. For example, the flood and the rainbow. If god wanted the rainbow to be a special symbol, why doesn’t the rainbow appear every time it rains? Why is it sometimes incomplete? Why do we see “rainbows” in other conditions? You will find some elaborate cope to explain this, but if this were any other religion you would easily see that it’s just outdated god of the gaps explanations
it's kind of missing the point to conflate ancient myths with modern religion. Back then, "myths" were the best anybody could do, even the smartest guy in the room. Myths WERE the naturalistic explanation, in opposition to chaos or a contrived story told by god. Religion today is something else, a private spiritual defense zone against the uncomfortable collective reality. A way of re-centering the human experience in a world fully obsessed with nonhuman forms of meaning. They're almost opposites except the goal of balancing people's lives is the same.
in other words religion was and still is a cope. The sooner we get rid of it the sooner we can focus on actual progress and not trying to go to heaven
True, and you're not the first to think of it. People are constantly pushing the limits of secular progress. Spirituality still exists because those ambitions do have a limit. The 'Titanic' archetype represents flawed optimism, viz., we can continually build bigger and faster ships, we can build a rapid deployment military spacecraft and launch on a corrupt political schedule in the 1980s, we can allow the israelites and randians to build enormously oversize, gross monuments to NWO power in their world capital without direct military protection
When you reach the limit, humility is waiting
we haven’t yet found a limit at all. We haven’t even scratched the surface of genetics, which is arguably the most important science of the future. We are probably far from our biological potential, in terms of raw intelligence and general rationality/forethought. Imagine being able to easily imagine a concept so vividly that it overwhelms whatever present temptations you may have, and you are able to live sinlessly. We will literally create the free will that God failed to do. Everything we do will be based on our true, rational goals. If you want to be fit and healthy, then you will never eat junk food, you will always exercise, and you will love it. Our potential is much greater than what we currently are
I'm saying there are local limits like there's local mortality. Local spirituality makes sense, and if it 'requires' pseudo naturalistic lampshading to exist in peace then so be it.
if i wrote a scifi book, id do the same, make everyone hyper rational uintil people think life isnt worth living and all kill themselves out of a mix of the limits of logic, and the lack of good feelings that make life enjoyable
they would feel good though. They would be perfectly adapted to their environment like when we were Hunter-gatherers. All of our decisions would flow naturally and we would live in perfect health.
There was a time before men could kill whales. How powerful they must have seemed! How numerous and ancient they lived. I woke at two or three and shuffled out on the deck to piss -- I almost fell off. A planet stooped down in glory above me, an angel. I saw the cut of her white robe, I saw it billow as she strode. Perseids filled the sky, but I couldn't see them. There was a time before men could blot out the stars. How mighty they must have seemed!
POV: you're a neolithic person and you encounter this thing. How do you explain it? No mythology, defined as anything that violates modern science like "the bird is an intelligent being"
I think a lot about how it must have been to live back then.
Definitely horrifying in many ways, but it also must have been so magical and mysterious to know so little of nature and the laws of it.