God does everything he can to demonstrate that he's real every day by raping my mind and terrorizing, abusing, harassing, threatening etc me for my thoughts through everyone else on earth who he controls as a moronic troony hivemind. God makes it impossible to believe he's not real by constantly negatively interfering with my life
It controls everyone and everything else on earth so there is no functional difference between it and God. Anything with complete and total control over everyone and everything in material reality is God.
You can't blame God for the free will of other beings. He can only steer things to better decisions. My opinion on free will is a lot more nuanced now as for how our inclinations, thought, and feelings are influenced. But I hope you and that other anon get through to a better state of Good and Peacem its a fine line between "mystic" and "schizo"
Read Swedenborg's works. Really recommend him -- he mightve saved my life.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Anything that controls everything and everyone in material reality is God. I can blame God for the free will actions of God.
5 months ago
Anonymous
So in other words you blame God for moving your free will to blame God? =P
Please read Swedenborg I feel like you'd benefit a lot from it. All evil can stem from either hellish influx or our own doings. All good (even indirect goods) come from God. God is so loving and forgiving that he lets many evil and wicked beings get away with all sorts of things in the hope that they'll turn to him. We're never going to fully understand the "why" bad things happen or why Divine Providence is the way it is, but so it be.
This the synagogue near my workplace is eminating some kind of energy that forces me to scratch myself. I already scratch enough that I started bleeding but I still want more. Why is he like this?
How likely is it for a man to survive in the belly of a fish for multiple days
How likely is it to fit 2 of every animal species on a single boat
How likely is it to restore an entire species from 2 individuals
How likely is it for languages to have been all split at the same time when some like French or modern english did not exist yet
How likely is it to flood all continents up to the top of mountains
How likely is it to magically duplicate bread and fish
How likely is it to be a man born from a single woman thus not having an Y chromosome yet still being a man?
That's part of it. The Father is (from your own perspective within the universe) your personification of the topological closure of the universe, which includes you since you yourself are part of the Universe. Sin comes from making yourself the focal point of that personification, rather than it's entirety i.e., the Father. Thus did Cain sin by offering wheat to the Lord, confident in his self-centeredness that the Lord would accept the fruit of his labor. So was Cain's wroth aroused when the Lord rejected the offering, which was made to please Cain's vanity and not the Lord.
Your doubts are a natural progression of you subconsciously noticing more and more things that are nonsensical. Unfortunately you can’t fit a square peg into a round hole.
The double edged sword of learning more about your religion. Or looking at it even slightly critically
The different conceptions of God thought up by philosophers is likely to exist. Specific religions that claim miracles, but miracles that only happen when no one has a camera nearby for some reason, that is less likely to be true.
If your faith in God needs to be based on your personal logic being satisfied, you're missing the point. If you have the ears to hear the words of Christ, your heart will receive them.
Christ IS the Word. We are called upon to love the Lord our God with all our hearts, all our minds, all our souls. Conforming our personal logic to the Written Word of God is how we love the Lord with our minds. Conforming our flesh to the works which He commands is how we love the Lord with our hearts. Conforming our spirits to the trajectory which Christ Jesus sets them upon by His quickening thereof is how we love the Lord with our souls.
>If your faith in God needs to be based on your personal logic being satisfied, you're missing the point.
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength", Some people need to be logical satisfied to do this.
Randum quantum fluactuations can conjure up a consciousness out of nowhere
5 months ago
Anonymous
Do you need to be told how moronic this statement is as a response to what was said?
5 months ago
Anonymous
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain
5 months ago
Anonymous
That should just be a link to the word "yes"
5 months ago
Anonymous
Random quantum fluctuations aren't nothing, they're a thing. That is why Krauss' book is a joke.
How does a god come from nothing?
It's more like: everything we know about reality says that everything comes from something or at least everything is contingent on something else. But you can't have an infinite regression of causes or of contingency. So whatever is the cause of everything can't follow the same rules as everything, otherwise you fall into the same issue. So the first cause, the ground of reality, must be transcendent. It also can't have different parts, otherwise you would also need to explain how one part causes the other, or how it moves the other, or what their relation is when relation itself is a thing that needs a cause and so on. Which means that it must be something completely simple. Keep going along those lines and you get the classical theist argument. Or you can just say that there is no ground for existence anyway. You just bite the bullet and assume everything is contingent on everything else, and an infinite regression is possible. That goes towards something like Buddhism.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Nothing is impossible anon, even in the vacuum there is all sorts of weird shit going on at the planck scale
5 months ago
Anonymous
If there is all sorts of weird shit going on, there is shit going on, which means there is shit, which means it's not nothing. Nothing is what you can see from your elbow. It's what an inanimate rock feels. It's a bachelor's wife. A vacuum is something, that obeys the laws of physics, which are also a thing. When people ask: "Why is there something rather than nothing?" they mean actual nothing.
Which God?
I think the likelihood of a God or supreme consciousness is high but any individual one defined by people is not high. The cosmological problem posed by doesn't validate any particular belief system as there are a number of steps in between.
Christianity has a bias of longevity and documentation that is more testament to the institutions in place to support it. The historicity as
>>How likely is the existence of God?
Probably there exists an entity which is the equivalent of "God" but probably not how we would conceive if it through a religious context >How likely is the existence of the CHRISTIAN God?
More likely than most other religions due to historicity of the gospels but still probably very low.
mentions is also true, but in reality that's akin to saying the Greek Pantheon is true because we found Troy and historically validated that the Trojan War happened, therefore the narratives about the Gods in The Iliad are true.
Ultimately it's about what you believe and what results of your interrogation of the idea. Everyone else is going to continually hit you with their biases. Pastors are adept at dealing with common arguments as a redirection to scriptures in the same way salespeople are trained to handle objections to convince you to buy whatever. In matters of faith, the truest answers are the ones you come to personally. Get off of Oyish and read and investigate.
What about Eastern philosophies? Some people say that their views of existence makes more sense than the Abrahimic one. A difference that maybe I grasped.
.Abrahimic >life is crap but if you follow a specific code of conduct and morals you'll be eternally rewarded in the afterlife.
Eastern >life is crap and your conduct and morals will determine whether your next life will be the same shit or even worse.
No, eastern religions generally have a nice immortality, although it's a lot harder to achieve than in Abrahamic religions, and it's separate from the common afterlife- which is crappy to varying degrees.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>a lot harder to achieve than in Abrahamic religion
Hiw dies it work?
>>How likely is the existence of God?
Probably there exists an entity which is the equivalent of "God" but probably not how we would conceive if it through a religious context >How likely is the existence of the CHRISTIAN God?
More likely than most other religions due to historicity of the gospels but still probably very low.
100%
You can't have something from nothing. As for if the Creator is an impartial spectator or active in your life, try finding a nice church that you like. Eventually the universe will hopefully start giving you "synchronicities" (or signs from God).
God bless anonkun. We all go through these phases and then some. 🙂
If by that you mean a non physical alien intelligence that can manipulate the laws of physics than not that likely because we have no idea how a cosciousness can exist independent of matter.
Well if there isn't a God, then most likely there are other forms of spiritual forces, something like what the Hindus believe. There's too many examples and experiences which are supernatural for the world to be just material.
So if there is spiritual forces, then morality probably comes from them.
And Christ has the most logical and true morality system ever made.
Which means that Christianity is the most likely religion to be true.
But if not, it's probably some vaguely spiritual shit without one singular creator deity
There definitely is an ultimate being, it's scientifically impossible for things to start happening without a starter. So there has to be something that's above the laws of nature, a sovereign being, than which nothing greater can be conceived. And as for Christianity? Would the Apostles willingly have gone to their deaths for something they made up, that they knew was false?
1 Corinthians 15:14: >14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
Ok if we're not arguing any particular religion, just for the existence of a divine power, then yes, it's possible that it's simply a force like the Dao. It makes sense for this force to be personal once you actually take a look at Christianity - the resurrection of Jesus, or the liar/lunatic/Lord trilemma.
Laws of motion tell us that nothing starts moving or stops moving unless acted upon by an outside force. For this to make sense there has to be an outside force that transcends these laws of motion and can set the universe into motion.
Kierkegaard was really interesting to me because he tackled the intractable nature of the reason/faith conflict head-on compared to other people I'd listened to on the topic. He says something like "faith" is undermined by an application of "reason", since "reason" induces doubt and worldly meaning-making which orients us away from the certainty of God's word. However, since we can't know God without applying a reason or interpretation of some kind to his word, we're always doomed to uncertainty, and so to unfulfillment/disappointment. Reason leaves us wanting, Faith leaves us wanting, and faith will inevitably seek reasons and vice-versa. Nothing is certain, everything is moving all at once.
In light of this fact you've got a choice to make: you can surrender to God's word and consign yourself to a selfless life of unquestioning charity, asceticism, unknowing and repentance, or you can tend and "interpret" God's word by embracing worldly reason in order to cultivate your own desires and being, what Kierkegaard calls the "aesthetic life", which as previously discussed necessarily "corrupts" God's word and so corrupts the world of the believer in the eyes of the man of faith (himself corrupted).
This talk did weird things to me. It made me start thinking about Art more, and the kind of meaning I want to generate from experiences. It made me want to break things into smaller pieces. Even without faith, it seems to me a life that isn't vital and constantly interrogated is a life that's not worth living. Faith is nice when taken as some mechanism for coordinating morality, but at the individual level I feel like it makes some people "stuck" in a way I can't fully explain.
>you can surrender to God's word
But that is where the problem lies: which God? Catholic? Orthodox? Hindu? Muslim? You need some sort of criteria to decide.
The "surrender" Kierkegaard speaks of is one that he compares to the story of Job, who would kill his son no questions asked. There is no rationality here, no worldly interpretation, no doubt. Only pure Faith.
That doesn't appeal to me, and so I would prefer the "aesthetic" life ultimately.
Do you believe in God or do you lean more towards the agnostic side?
5 months ago
Anonymous
Agnostic, 100%. Guilty as charged.
Like I said in my big wall of text, religion is compelling when you consider its function as a system of moral permissions and obligations, as some historical thing we've inherited. But speaking for myself it made me myopic, and it took me a long time to realize that a lot of my "faith" amounted to an unexamined ideological expression, a club of friends that shared the same resentments as me.
I wanted to let the world in, but couldn't reconcile myself with the false dichotomy of tradition/modernity I'd become a slave to. I feel like I'm still struggling to break free, but that Kierkegaard lecture was one of the things that made me realize how far behind I'd fallen in my life, how lazy I'd become. My faith meant nothing to me, and I had no faith in my reasoning. I needed to step way back.
>How likely is the existence of God?
As likely as you want it to be.
The alternative is that you're a dumb animal with dumb animal instincts, in which case it doesn't matter if God is real as long as your instincts tell you He is, because dumb animals have no higher obligation in a godless universe than satisfying their own instinctual drives.
>How likely is the existence of God?
WhIcH oNe
God does everything he can to demonstrate that he's real every day by raping my mind and terrorizing, abusing, harassing, threatening etc me for my thoughts through everyone else on earth who he controls as a moronic troony hivemind. God makes it impossible to believe he's not real by constantly negatively interfering with my life
Yep. Hate the mind reading, honestly, I didn't know that is what I agreed to. Can seriously frick off I'm sick of it
It's not God doing it. It's evil principalities. Higher level beings just seem like God to humans.
It controls everyone and everything else on earth so there is no functional difference between it and God. Anything with complete and total control over everyone and everything in material reality is God.
You can't blame God for the free will of other beings. He can only steer things to better decisions. My opinion on free will is a lot more nuanced now as for how our inclinations, thought, and feelings are influenced. But I hope you and that other anon get through to a better state of Good and Peacem its a fine line between "mystic" and "schizo"
Read Swedenborg's works. Really recommend him -- he mightve saved my life.
Anything that controls everything and everyone in material reality is God. I can blame God for the free will actions of God.
So in other words you blame God for moving your free will to blame God? =P
Please read Swedenborg I feel like you'd benefit a lot from it. All evil can stem from either hellish influx or our own doings. All good (even indirect goods) come from God. God is so loving and forgiving that he lets many evil and wicked beings get away with all sorts of things in the hope that they'll turn to him. We're never going to fully understand the "why" bad things happen or why Divine Providence is the way it is, but so it be.
This the synagogue near my workplace is eminating some kind of energy that forces me to scratch myself. I already scratch enough that I started bleeding but I still want more. Why is he like this?
Read up on the Five Ways by Thomas Aquinas
If you believe in an “is” you already believe in God.
How likely is it for a man to survive in the belly of a fish for multiple days
How likely is it to fit 2 of every animal species on a single boat
How likely is it to restore an entire species from 2 individuals
How likely is it for languages to have been all split at the same time when some like French or modern english did not exist yet
How likely is it to flood all continents up to the top of mountains
How likely is it to magically duplicate bread and fish
How likely is it to be a man born from a single woman thus not having an Y chromosome yet still being a man?
God gave you a prayer for times of doubt.
"Lord I believe, help me in my unbelief!"
The better question is, what do you have to lose with your continued faith?
>beliefs don't impact your life
Worst apologetic argument ever conceived.
Is it though?
Yes, something that is obviously wrong, like "beliefs don't impact your life" is a bad argument.
100% but worshipping the demiurge makes you just as moronic as he is
P(God) = 1.
If you are asking this question, you don't understand what the word "God" means.
God is you personifying the Universe
That's part of it. The Father is (from your own perspective within the universe) your personification of the topological closure of the universe, which includes you since you yourself are part of the Universe. Sin comes from making yourself the focal point of that personification, rather than it's entirety i.e., the Father. Thus did Cain sin by offering wheat to the Lord, confident in his self-centeredness that the Lord would accept the fruit of his labor. So was Cain's wroth aroused when the Lord rejected the offering, which was made to please Cain's vanity and not the Lord.
Why was the desert man giving wheat to the infinite cold void of the cosmos?
He wasn't, you are imposing your own perspective on him.
Your doubts are a natural progression of you subconsciously noticing more and more things that are nonsensical. Unfortunately you can’t fit a square peg into a round hole.
The double edged sword of learning more about your religion. Or looking at it even slightly critically
The different conceptions of God thought up by philosophers is likely to exist. Specific religions that claim miracles, but miracles that only happen when no one has a camera nearby for some reason, that is less likely to be true.
That's a completely meaningless question anon
If your faith in God needs to be based on your personal logic being satisfied, you're missing the point. If you have the ears to hear the words of Christ, your heart will receive them.
Christ IS the Word. We are called upon to love the Lord our God with all our hearts, all our minds, all our souls. Conforming our personal logic to the Written Word of God is how we love the Lord with our minds. Conforming our flesh to the works which He commands is how we love the Lord with our hearts. Conforming our spirits to the trajectory which Christ Jesus sets them upon by His quickening thereof is how we love the Lord with our souls.
>If your faith in God needs to be based on your personal logic being satisfied, you're missing the point.
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength", Some people need to be logical satisfied to do this.
>If you apply any logic to religion, it completely falls apart
Good to hear you say it out loud
How many things do you do on a day to day basis have a logical explanation all the way down to its core?
It's already happened
God exists bro. Read "Meditations" by Marcus Aurelius.
He's 100% real but there's no way he's got the three omnis.
If your faith is predicated on how likely your beliefs are to be true, you have no faith and never did.
It's infinitely more likely than everything just sort of coming to fruition by random happenstance.
That's not how ststistics work
How does everything come from nothing?
I have no idea; also I'm guessing that doesn't apply to god for some reason
How does a god come from nothing?
Randum quantum fluactuations can conjure up a consciousness out of nowhere
Do you need to be told how moronic this statement is as a response to what was said?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain
That should just be a link to the word "yes"
Random quantum fluctuations aren't nothing, they're a thing. That is why Krauss' book is a joke.
It's more like: everything we know about reality says that everything comes from something or at least everything is contingent on something else. But you can't have an infinite regression of causes or of contingency. So whatever is the cause of everything can't follow the same rules as everything, otherwise you fall into the same issue. So the first cause, the ground of reality, must be transcendent. It also can't have different parts, otherwise you would also need to explain how one part causes the other, or how it moves the other, or what their relation is when relation itself is a thing that needs a cause and so on. Which means that it must be something completely simple. Keep going along those lines and you get the classical theist argument. Or you can just say that there is no ground for existence anyway. You just bite the bullet and assume everything is contingent on everything else, and an infinite regression is possible. That goes towards something like Buddhism.
Nothing is impossible anon, even in the vacuum there is all sorts of weird shit going on at the planck scale
If there is all sorts of weird shit going on, there is shit going on, which means there is shit, which means it's not nothing. Nothing is what you can see from your elbow. It's what an inanimate rock feels. It's a bachelor's wife. A vacuum is something, that obeys the laws of physics, which are also a thing. When people ask: "Why is there something rather than nothing?" they mean actual nothing.
Which God?
I think the likelihood of a God or supreme consciousness is high but any individual one defined by people is not high. The cosmological problem posed by doesn't validate any particular belief system as there are a number of steps in between.
Christianity has a bias of longevity and documentation that is more testament to the institutions in place to support it. The historicity as
mentions is also true, but in reality that's akin to saying the Greek Pantheon is true because we found Troy and historically validated that the Trojan War happened, therefore the narratives about the Gods in The Iliad are true.
Ultimately it's about what you believe and what results of your interrogation of the idea. Everyone else is going to continually hit you with their biases. Pastors are adept at dealing with common arguments as a redirection to scriptures in the same way salespeople are trained to handle objections to convince you to buy whatever. In matters of faith, the truest answers are the ones you come to personally. Get off of Oyish and read and investigate.
What about Eastern philosophies? Some people say that their views of existence makes more sense than the Abrahimic one. A difference that maybe I grasped.
.Abrahimic
>life is crap but if you follow a specific code of conduct and morals you'll be eternally rewarded in the afterlife.
Eastern
>life is crap and your conduct and morals will determine whether your next life will be the same shit or even worse.
Dud I get it right?
No, eastern religions generally have a nice immortality, although it's a lot harder to achieve than in Abrahamic religions, and it's separate from the common afterlife- which is crappy to varying degrees.
>a lot harder to achieve than in Abrahamic religion
Hiw dies it work?
Complete abolition of attachment.
>>How likely is the existence of God?
Probably there exists an entity which is the equivalent of "God" but probably not how we would conceive if it through a religious context
>How likely is the existence of the CHRISTIAN God?
More likely than most other religions due to historicity of the gospels but still probably very low.
You need to define God first.
100%
You can't have something from nothing. As for if the Creator is an impartial spectator or active in your life, try finding a nice church that you like. Eventually the universe will hopefully start giving you "synchronicities" (or signs from God).
God bless anonkun. We all go through these phases and then some. 🙂
Greater than zero but very low.
We really have no positive evidence of his existence but you can't prove a negative
If by that you mean a non physical alien intelligence that can manipulate the laws of physics than not that likely because we have no idea how a cosciousness can exist independent of matter.
Well if there isn't a God, then most likely there are other forms of spiritual forces, something like what the Hindus believe. There's too many examples and experiences which are supernatural for the world to be just material.
So if there is spiritual forces, then morality probably comes from them.
And Christ has the most logical and true morality system ever made.
Which means that Christianity is the most likely religion to be true.
But if not, it's probably some vaguely spiritual shit without one singular creator deity
There definitely is an ultimate being, it's scientifically impossible for things to start happening without a starter. So there has to be something that's above the laws of nature, a sovereign being, than which nothing greater can be conceived. And as for Christianity? Would the Apostles willingly have gone to their deaths for something they made up, that they knew was false?
1 Corinthians 15:14:
>14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
>scientifically impossible for things to start happening without a starter.
Why do you assume it is a being?
Ok if we're not arguing any particular religion, just for the existence of a divine power, then yes, it's possible that it's simply a force like the Dao. It makes sense for this force to be personal once you actually take a look at Christianity - the resurrection of Jesus, or the liar/lunatic/Lord trilemma.
Wdym
Laws of motion tell us that nothing starts moving or stops moving unless acted upon by an outside force. For this to make sense there has to be an outside force that transcends these laws of motion and can set the universe into motion.
Humans have a hard time understanding God because they cannot accept that they are not the main character and God is not their personal nanny.
Kierkegaard was really interesting to me because he tackled the intractable nature of the reason/faith conflict head-on compared to other people I'd listened to on the topic. He says something like "faith" is undermined by an application of "reason", since "reason" induces doubt and worldly meaning-making which orients us away from the certainty of God's word. However, since we can't know God without applying a reason or interpretation of some kind to his word, we're always doomed to uncertainty, and so to unfulfillment/disappointment. Reason leaves us wanting, Faith leaves us wanting, and faith will inevitably seek reasons and vice-versa. Nothing is certain, everything is moving all at once.
In light of this fact you've got a choice to make: you can surrender to God's word and consign yourself to a selfless life of unquestioning charity, asceticism, unknowing and repentance, or you can tend and "interpret" God's word by embracing worldly reason in order to cultivate your own desires and being, what Kierkegaard calls the "aesthetic life", which as previously discussed necessarily "corrupts" God's word and so corrupts the world of the believer in the eyes of the man of faith (himself corrupted).
This talk did weird things to me. It made me start thinking about Art more, and the kind of meaning I want to generate from experiences. It made me want to break things into smaller pieces. Even without faith, it seems to me a life that isn't vital and constantly interrogated is a life that's not worth living. Faith is nice when taken as some mechanism for coordinating morality, but at the individual level I feel like it makes some people "stuck" in a way I can't fully explain.
>you can surrender to God's word
But that is where the problem lies: which God? Catholic? Orthodox? Hindu? Muslim? You need some sort of criteria to decide.
Precisely.
The "surrender" Kierkegaard speaks of is one that he compares to the story of Job, who would kill his son no questions asked. There is no rationality here, no worldly interpretation, no doubt. Only pure Faith.
That doesn't appeal to me, and so I would prefer the "aesthetic" life ultimately.
Do you believe in God or do you lean more towards the agnostic side?
Agnostic, 100%. Guilty as charged.
Like I said in my big wall of text, religion is compelling when you consider its function as a system of moral permissions and obligations, as some historical thing we've inherited. But speaking for myself it made me myopic, and it took me a long time to realize that a lot of my "faith" amounted to an unexamined ideological expression, a club of friends that shared the same resentments as me.
I wanted to let the world in, but couldn't reconcile myself with the false dichotomy of tradition/modernity I'd become a slave to. I feel like I'm still struggling to break free, but that Kierkegaard lecture was one of the things that made me realize how far behind I'd fallen in my life, how lazy I'd become. My faith meant nothing to me, and I had no faith in my reasoning. I needed to step way back.
suffering exists, therefore god doesn't
very likely
calm down
And you're going to this fricking board? Ask a priest.
>oh you’re questioning an ideology?
>why wouldn’t you go to a guy who’s entire lifelong career is defending that ideology no matter what
Lol
>How likely is the existence of God?
As likely as you want it to be.
The alternative is that you're a dumb animal with dumb animal instincts, in which case it doesn't matter if God is real as long as your instincts tell you He is, because dumb animals have no higher obligation in a godless universe than satisfying their own instinctual drives.
>christcucks mind-broken and dominated by basic science
Lol
Not very likely at all.
Same likelihood as leprechauns.
Historically certain https://tektonticker.blogspot.com/2022/05/today-i-have-special-guest-piece-by.html