how do christians cope with the fact that the ending of mark and story of the adultress are complete forgeries?
how do christians cope with the fact that the ending of mark and story of the adultress are complete forgeries?
Talk religion
Talk religion
how do christians cope with the fact that the ending of mark and story of the adultress are complete forgeries?
By not printing it in our bibles, or noting the inauthenticity in a footnote
hello dirk
it was still believed to be scripture for nearly 2 thousand years, only relatively recently it was outed as being a forgery, how would this not disprove your religion to you? surely if we saw the same thing in any other holy text youd use it as ammunition
I don't get it
is the bible the infallible word of god?
Yes
yet the bible had fallible and fake human insertions into it, why would a god allow this into his text that is supposed to be entirely infallible?
You're saying if inspiration is true, god shouldn't have allowed anyone to write anything extra or make any mistakes in any copy of the text?
its more than making a mistake or anything extra, the text was believed to be a part of the bible just like any other verse, fully inspired and infallible
Right
what are you missing? the longer ending of mark and the adultress are not just side notes that a scribe wrote that everyone knew is not part of the bible, for nearly two thousand years they were treated just as any other bible verse, as the infallible word of god, yet we clearly know they are not part of the original bible, why would god intentionally leave blatant lies in his holy text that makes billions of people fully believe in a lie?
I'm missing the part where it disproves the religion
imagine if tomorrow we find out that the entire book of mark was a forgery, with absolutely no doubt, do you think this would disprove christianity?
No
then youre fricking moronic and just blindly believe in your religion no matter what, I cant believe I wasted my fricking time with you
You concede
>2+2=4
>nuh uh, its 5
>heres proof that 2+2=4 and not 5
>nuh uh
>what would prove to you that 2+2=4?
>nothing
have a nice day
> 2 + 2 = 4
I am completely convinced that so-called mathematics is actually mental masturbation, and the only thing it really allows us to do is create meaningless symbols that confuse us. If we could somehow get rid of these symbols, all our problems would be solved. This is not unlike most religions and their God. A bunch of fictional nonsense that helps us cope with life's serious problems. If you seriously think about it, mathematics is a dangerous pseudoscience that claims that 2 + 2 = 4. What difference does it make if we believe it or not? We still need to pay bills, feed families and provide shelter. When was the last time you used this "equation" in your daily life? I guarantee it won't help you in any way. Mathematics is not some kind of truth, it is a dangerous cult dating back to Plato and ancient Hellas. We need to leave that behind and move on to a more practical and rewarding science of mechanics that can be applied to problems in the real world and that doesn't have the "calculus" gimmicks to protect us from reality. Don't lie to me about bitcoin and the digital age. Your abstract nonsense is only useful for confusing and misleading ordinary people, and it has no place in our world. Mathematics was a historical error that brought nothing but suffering to humanity. Without useless mathematical nonsense, humanity could develop much faster than it is now.
The Babylonians and Egyptians had mathematics too.
The Babylonians and Egyptians never used the devilish decimal system. It has been scientifically proven that counting in the decimal system is harmful to your brain. Your math is no different. Your "formula" for solving any real world problem is to just plug your numbers into it and pretend it is true. What does it matter if it is true or not? That's the difference between science and math. Science attempts to understand reality, not make it up. So, instead of using our limited human minds to understand what really happens in the world around us, most people are now taught to use abstract symbols and "formulas" to pretend that the impossible is possible. They then invent and believe that their fantasy theories are the truth. They believe their imaginary friends are real, and they live their entire lives in their delusional, imaginary reality.
>It has been scientifically proven that counting in the decimal system is harmful to your brain.
Can you show me the proof?
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4516393/
People are literally brainwashed into preferring a smaller decimal number to a larger non-decimal number. What is this if not irrationality imposed by the cult of math? No sane person should have such preferences. Instead of using such a flawed system, how about we start using a system of measurement and units that actually represents reality.
>how about we start using a system of measurement and units that actually represents reality.
What system do you propose?
The Babylonian system is, however, also a positional system, meaning that numbers are written as a series of symbols [S1,S2,S3,...]. Is your objection specifically that the base (10) of the decimal system is too small?
Hylic spotted. Many famous mathematicians or polymaths in general were devout theists.
If we are to be fair: the idea that any religion must be based entirely on some "holy book" is a Christian concept. While other religions, like Hinduism, do have writings, the religion of Hinduism is not solely based on e.g. the Bhagavad Gita, nor would, I would assume, the average Hindu say that the presence of a factual or historical error in the Bhagavad Gita disproves Hinduism somehow.
Also, by what standard could the Gospel of Mark be judged to be a forgery? The association with Mark is certainly later and apocryphal, so it is a forgery in that sense? The text has no stated author; it's not as if e.g. someone today wrote some book and falsely attributed it to Voltaire.
Now, we could say that it's a forgery if the present version we have is not the original one, though the fact that some people made additions, like the extended ending, is uncontroversial.
One could also resort to the idea that the text is somehow "infallible", but since we've accepted the idea that only some portion of the text we have (or had for the past centuries) is infallible, it could in principle be the case that maybe only 30% of the text is the infallible original, with the other 70% being later additions.
One could lastly also say that the work is a forgery if the events in it did not happen exactly as described historically, but would that not simply be a misinterpretation by the reader? We wouldn't call a historical novel set in a factionalized Chicago a "forgery", though someone who doesn't know that it's a historical novel might mistakenly attribute the wrong genre to it.
What I'm saying is that there really is little point in presenting any evidence if the question that's supposed to be answered isn't clear.
>If we are to be fair: the idea that any religion must be based entirely on some "holy book" is a Christian concept.
*protestant concept
That is also a good point, I should have been more careful in my thinking.
That's quite apparent.
Both are quoted by the Earliest Christians, aka Patristic Sources. Cope and seethe.
Because while the ending of Mark ends with the empty tomb, the other books have Jesus post-resurrection. It wasn't necessary to add it since it was supposed to be a cliffhanger, but it isn't harmful that it was. If I remember, the adultress story wasn't a complete fabrication, the "go and sin no more" part was added. I presume so people didn't assume that it was okay to keep on sinning. Unless it was in a different document that never got included, I don't think you should add stuff like that, but I don't think those additions are harmful.
how do christians cope with the fact that the ending of mark and story of the adultress are complete forgeries?
i don't know, can you please elaborate your point further
>how do christians cope with the fact that the ending of mark and story of the adultress are complete forgeries?
They aren't.
do you actually have any proof to back that up? every opinion besides some 70 iq southern baptists about them is that theyre forgeries
Sure. Here's three that I have off hand. One of them is in pic related.
https://www.thetextofthegospels.com/2023/03/irenaeus-and-mark-1619.html
https://www.thetextofthegospels.com/2021/04/mark-169-20-grace-to-you-vs-evidence.html
The people spreading the rumors against Mark 16:9-20 are simply dishonest liars and they are lying boldly to your face. It's for the same reason why we're forced to live in clown world now. Christians are the only voice of sanity left.