Eastern Orthodoxy is unironically BASED
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Eastern Orthodoxy is unironically BASED
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>choosing your faith based on which has the prettiest buildings
Dumb materialist.
He's also objectively wrong because Puritan style Protestant churches are objectively aesthetically better than Greek dome churches
This. I would probably concede that Roman Catholic churches are the most aesthetic, but good Protestant churches mog Orthodox ones.
I don’t deny it can be pleasing, but even the best Protestant or Catholic Church architecture feels institutional and man-made, because it reflects a theology which is man-made
>the bible is man-made
You don’t use the Bible to retroactively piece together clues about who God is and arrive at anything other than a man-made God
Huh?
The Bible derives from true theology, true theology doesn’t derive from the Bible. If your method of theology and knowing God is using the Bible to uncover clues about who He is (as opposed to a direct encounter with the person of Christ, and the Spirit, which is Orthodox) you will only ever arrive at a man-made view which is limited by your own faculties
Mormon burning in the bosom-tier
>my feelings are more important than what God says
The Church was there before you, and it will be there after you die. What’s that got to do with burning in the bosom. Reading the Bible and forming a personal picture of God based on your fee fees is Mormon and Protestant, not humbling yourself before a 2,000 year-old tradition
The bible isn't my fee fees, it's God's word. The true Church isn't your money scam, it's the body of believers whose religion comes from God's revelation in scripture
The Bible is trustworthy. Jesus is God’s Word. And your Protestant theology is the way you interpret God’s Word in your own head. And I thank God that the living Christ is not limited to your reading of the Bible
What is the divine command for ornate churches?
Satan, Jesus inspired the best music and architecture in the world. Why do you need a written command to justify glorifying God?
Unbiblical. Matthew 26
>Why are you bothering this woman? She has done a beautiful thing to me. The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me.
So you're saying Jesus was a liar? That he is still here to be glorified by material?
Where am I saying that?
Jesus is saying that it is okay to spend money glorifying him instead of feeding the poor because he was there to be glorified, implying that when he is gone it should instead go to the poor.
If you know he isn't on Earth anymore, what does that verse have to do with this discussion? If anything its implication contradicts you.
Jesus is rebuking those who would say it’s improper to glorify God and do beautiful things for Him with money and effort that could equally go to the poor. That’s it. That’s the entire lesson of that passage
>but you will not always have me.
So Jesus was lying?
Anon, you really read that and deduce that it is right to bother someone who is doing beautiful things for Christ just because He was taken from us?
I don't think that verse has anything to do with anyone but Christ, as there is no indication that it does.
WDYM. It has to do with the woman, and the people falsely accusing the woman. It’s a lesson on how to act
Yes, how to act in the physical presence of Christ.
>Missing the point
It’s the house of god, make it look good because it’s the house of god but remember that all these acts are to glorify him. The woman glorified god, she didn’t do what she did as a flex, she annointed him with the good oil, an act which is both servile and honoring of him.
> Why do you need a written command to justify glorifying God?
I don't. I am an Orthodox Christian and I am in favour of beautiful churches.
I asked for one because of this comment
saying there 'IS' the divine command, as opposed to a fricking preference and desire on how to demonstrate God to others.
All religions are man-made.
Including atheism but excluding Christianity
Some group has been reprinting a lot of old Puritan stuff. I wonder if Puritan theology is coming back in style with certain Protestant sects.
They’ve been in style in the traditional Presbyterian churches forever. Our doctrinal standards were written by the Puritans in 1646, the Westminster Confession of Faith.
I was discussing Puritan works at church today with someone.
My area is mostly Baptist which is why it confused me but I have heard there's a bit of a Calvinist movement in the Baptist churches lately which might be part of it.
Yeah, originally baptists were mostly Calvinists. Check out the 1689 London Baptist Confession, it was based on the Westminster. Reformed Baptist churches use it.
>Talking about aesthetics
>OBjEcTiVelY
moron
This. While I understand that it’s God’s house and he should be glorified, the bible repeatedly reinforces modesty and mentions that you can have church anywhere, in your basement, under a tree, in an alley full of hobos. I think that the protestant style better represents humble modesty and God is better glorified by works. Yeah repair the leaky roof because no stranger is gonna want to go to a church that smells like mildew and has puddles, but instead of gold domes or something spend the money helping others, glorifying God, and luring them into the faith.
Who is more likely to burn brightly with the fanaticism of the lord? The drug addict saved from the streets, death, and hell by God’s infinite mercy, or some 24 year old who went to a church because their church looks gaudy and their services remind him of the middle ages?
>Choosing your faith based on which will promise you can get filthy rich without having to worry for Heaven
>church built by a rich nobleman in a well-established town 800 years ago looks different to a church built by dirt-poor homesteaders in the middle of an empty prairie in the 1880s
imagine my shock
>built by dirt-poor homesteaders in the middle of an empty prairie in the 1880s
Catholic Americans didn't have that problem with their churches
Because they showed up much later?
Yes, Protestants tend not to have the financial infrastructure of the entirety of the catholic faith and rely on crowd sourcing to fund their buildings.
Yeah, SOME Muslim mosques look real nice and pretty because usually a rich motherfricker donates a shit ton of money in order to be perceived well in the public light. For some reason Muslims understand this unlike Christians and are perfect fine with worshipping in a mosque with no walls. And Christians wonder why half their clergy are gay and westerners are becoming more atheistic.
Proddies are heretics but compared to the larp that is the Orthodox church, Proddies are God's own children.
They don't believe in filioque. Heretics.
The Filioque is a second millennium innovation that represents a literal change to the 1000 year-old creed, it also destroys the symmetry of the Trinity. Only npcs can’t understand this
It was in use in Rome before the results of Nicaea reached it. You're wrong.
>second millennium
>The filioque was developed in the 2000s AD
millennium
>>The filioque was developed in the 2000s AD
Absolute state
>It's the 20th century, so it must mean the 2000s because they both have 2.
The Second Millennium was 1000>1999, dumbass
Filioque is what God taught to St. Paul and St. Peter. Orthodox heretics deny Christ's teachings.
A lot of Orthodox churches in my area are just old Protestant buildings with a dome slapped on top. Even the local synagouge just an old Presbyterian church building.
A lot of orthodox "churches" in my area are just houses or even apartments.
Any Christian organization which attacks another over a nothing problem like aesthetics is misguided. Luckily this does not happen as much anymore, and it is only individual adherents like OP which are childish enough to engage in worthless disputes.
>Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
Typical Protestant church
They can practice out of a tin shack at the bottom of disease ridden slum, it doesn't matter.
They praise Jesus as Christ, Son of God, who died for our sins. Who are you to say that they are worse Christians for what building they use? God never says "build me gold palaces and this is the only place you can worship me" and he doesn't say "do not honor me with fancy churches". He doesn't speak about it at all because it doesn't matter anymore. You are not honored before God through architecture, but through Christ.
>They can practice out of a tin shack at the bottom of disease ridden slum, it doesn't matter.
Yes it does. That isn’t right. God commands reverence
Leviticus 26:2
John 14:6
I can think of some justifications. The Calvinist view on art seems reasonable enough to me, that art is less meaningful than and distracts from worship. You can disagree with that subjectively like I do but you have no grounds to judge them for it.
>Building houses of God ugly and that look like Walmarts isn't disrespectful to the Lord at all
If possible it is the duty of christians to build churches based on the beauty of God's creation to properly glorify Him, if christians are able and don't do this out of mere judaizer puritanism they are insulting heaven
The last surviving Puritan church building in New England is nice looking even if it is simplistic
These thoughts can be reconciled though. Where I live, in some areas, when the Orthodox community first migrated, they were poor, and at least two churches I can think of were built by the community, and are essentially beautified garages. The community did the best they could with the resources available and many don't even notice today. That said, they went to some efforts to make it more aesthetically pleasing, not because of a divine command, but largely due to the Orthodox view on church architecture and design, in that it should feel warm, and welcoming, with the colour and icons used in a manner so as to make one feel apart of God's community and in His embrace, demonstrating His benevolence. This is also why domes are typically used too, aside from just looking neat.
These preferences on design differed to Western tastes and views, as they largely opted for high vaunted ceilings so as to make one feel God's majesty and demonstrate the power distance between Him and us. And I suppose with 'low-church' Protestants, their architectural preferences can be said to demonstrate the humility God expects of us.
That said, I do not like ugly churches with no effort put into them, and have seen a great deal and just think it's a shame since it doesn't inspire or aid one in feeling God's presence.
>not because of a divine command, but largely due to the Orthodox view on church architecture and design
The Orthodox view IS the divine command, Kevin
I'm literally born and raised Orthodox.
What is the divine command and don't give me some shit like 'commands reverance' because church architecture would be a subjective interpretation of this. Even the Tabernacle was a fricking tent, and early Christians didn't commune in lavish buildings.
Early Christians didn’t have a Bible either Kevin. What now
Do Orthodox unironically believe this?
Are you moronic?
No.
Why do you think that the earliest Christians had a Bible then?
What do you think the word "bible" means? Is the Old Testament not the bible anymore? And even with the New Testament they only lacked it for a short amount of time, the entirety of it was completed and recognized even before the death of the last apostle
I mean the New Testament, which depending on your estimate was either completed and compiled many decades or centuries after the death of Christ. The earliest Christians didn’t have it.
>I mean the New Testament
Why doesn't the Old Testament count?
>The earliest Christians didn’t have it.
Yes nobody had it before it was written. After it was written they did have it. What was your point?
>Why doesn't the Old Testament count?
Because Protestants think the Church should be based on the New Testament, not the Old.
>What was your point?
That was literally impossible for a period of time.
>Because Protestants think the Church should be based on the New Testament, not the Old.
I believe in the entire bible though
>That was literally impossible for a period of time
We don't live in that period of time
This is the church originally made from a garage I mentioned. The dome is fiberglass and the entire building is covered in render, with exterior features added. at the cost of the community, in the 50s or 60s IIRC.
Nothing justifies building a church that looks like a department store except laziness.
You can reject iconography and materialism all you want, but at least be somewhat respectful towards your Lord and build some decently looking if you have the money to do so.
Any money used for the decadence of a building is money that could have been used to aid the poor.
christianity isn't about "aiding the poor" that's new-age hippie liberal bullshit. christianity is about honoring god, and you do so by building a church that doesn't look like some american scumbag was trying to save money
Sure. That's why Jesus went around building luxury palaces for himself.
>Why are you bothering this woman? She has done a beautiful thing to me. The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me.
I hope you see the relevance now.
Small act of kindness =/= billion-dollar luxury palaces.
Exquisitely based. This poster recognized the true nature of the Kingdom of God.
This church is in my diocese. It’s humble. It’s not materialistic. You can have an Orthodox Church out of a garage as another poster said. But it’s Orthodox, so it still gives infinitely more glory to God than a strip mall, which is just an insult
Post modernity
People going there are more genuine than Orthodogs lmao.
>recent converts are now converting becoming orthodox
This is a blessing in disguise for everyone else, now they don't need to worry about morons shitting their church with the stupidity they found on twitter
Orthodox and Catholic are brothers. israelites like yourself hate both for obvious reasons.
All fields.
Orthodoxy has higher rates of apostasy in America than any other Christian denomination or sect.
Many Orthodox churches (and Catholic ones) are in the same kinds of modern buildings as Protestant ones. They just cover the place with icons and moveable walls.
I wouldn't hold it against Eastern Orthodox churches, but all the convert zealots will attack Protestantism on the same grounds. The meme Orthodox man, Jay Dyer, calls Evangelicalism an "atheism factory." Then why do Orthodox churches have the highest rates of apostasy, while Evangelical churches tend to have the lowest?
[nta]
... because Evangelicals are so terrible an example to *other Christians* (cradle Presbyterians, Methodists, etc) that they scare them off lukewarm Christianity and into antiChristianity.
Now Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it and laid incense on it and offered unauthorized fire before the Lord, which he had not commanded them. And fire came out from before the Lord and consumed them, and they died before the Lord. Then Moses said to Aaron, “This is what the Lord has said:
‘Among those who are near me
I will be sanctified,
and before all the people
I will be glorified.’”
And Aaron held his peace.
Orthodox arguments against priest celibacy?
I tried arguing Timothy against a Roman Catholic, but they're trying to claim Corinthians and Paul supports it.
It's either or, you can be celibate or a family man.
So based that they willingly surrendered to Muslims and israeli atheists.
Not to mentioned utterly btfo'd by Catholics.
Verification not required
Catholics beat Orthodox so bad that they still seethe about it to this day.
How have they won? The Pope has declared Orthodoxy to not be wrong for quite some time now.
I’m genuinely confused at how a Catholic could believe this
Yeah because Orthodoxy needed to be validated by the Pope
The decision I just cited represents a large concession on the part of the Catholics towards acknowledging the inherent truth of Orthodoxy. It’s worth noting that the reverse isn’t the case — Orthodoxy strictly maintains that Catholicism is heresy. It doesn’t give af about the Pope. Now stop shilling for the Pope, cuck
Ortodox art and design are complete garbage
Nothing about eastern orthodoxy is traditional.
It’s literally the biggest church in the world that doesn’t dabble in globohomo.
ban third worlders from this site please
So, most Catholics?