I don't really get why this isn't a bigger topic on this board. Doesn't anyone at least consider it?
>an honest apprehension of the religion is at least a task to challenge yourself with, even if you are a skeptic of Christianity
>ailment to apathy, misanthropy, suicidal thoughts, and feelings of unfulfillment
>cause for self-worth outside the appraise of women
>gives you an objective reason to live, a God who loves you
>fills the void of nothingness we all feel deep inside even if we don't admit it
>exhaustless material to research and learn about accumulated over many centuries, like philosophy but neatly condensed for your comprehension
The cons are that you actually have to change and be a good person, but these are only cons because they will cause temporary discomfort. I don't imagine your shut-in lifestyles to cause too much conflict either. So what's the catch?
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E-Catholic converts are the most annoying people on the planet. If you want to become a Catholic because it's "le based" or for pussy, I can't stop you - but you should make an effort to be less insufferable.
t. cradle Catholic
this isn't what I'm asking about—I understand that these attitudes exist. I just don't understand why depressionposters on this board rarely ask about religion
>I just don't understand why depressionposters on this board rarely ask about religion
Because they're too busy posting about it themselves.
>I just don't understand why depressionposters on this board rarely ask about religion
i cannot overstate the extent to which the average person's entire worldview is fundamentally based on atheistic materialism. the idea of sincere religious faith simply isn't something they have a frame of reference for. and as others have pointed out, it doesn't help that trying to discuss religion on the internet (especially this corner of it, and especially catholicism) will summon larpers who either see the faith as a political identity or are leaning into acting like the hardass dad they wished they'd had, trying ever so hard to convince themselves. i don't know what your story is, but i converted years before the "catholic larper" existed as a stereotype and it's terrifying to wonder if they might have kept me away by sheer force of cringe.
>you actually have to change and be a good person
This is definitely part of it, to accept Christianity or any religion really is a massive shift in worldview. Most people are more comfortable in their ignorance.
When people are depressed or suffering the knee-jerk reaction to words of hope or faith is hostility. "You can't possibly understand what I'm going through" etc. You have to approach things like this very delicately and it isn't easy to do it over the internet.
And as other anons have stated the larpers really don't help anything.
>the average person's entire worldview is fundamentally based on atheistic materialism
It's sad. The secularization of education has made this the default, even if it was unintended. Most normies have ever heard of the mind-body problem or see themselves as anything more than brains on sticks. Young people are left directionless and without meaning or purpose because materialism simply does not offer answers to these questions.
>the idea of sincere religious faith simply isn't something they have a frame of reference for
You're moronic. Countless people have been raised from childhood to be Christian and rejected the faith, myself included. I've always found it absurd how many Christians think that non-believers are genuinely ignorant. "Wow so you're saying that God sent his only son to die on the cross for our sins? Tell me more!" It's like a fricking fantasy.
I'm suspicious of the motives of any single guy that goes through RCIA besides his parents converting, or his fiance is Catholic.
oh? how come? what kind of skeevy motives could i possibly have for doing so?
OP here, back to summarize this little informal survey.
The possible issues seem to be
>Prevailing attitudes
>Persistent worldviews
>The challenge to be good is too uncomfortable of a task
Out of these three, "persistent worldviews" seem to be the biggest problem.
>the average person's entire worldview is fundamentally based on atheistic materialism
I want to be able to challenge these ideas on a basis of practical wisdom, and I don't think this is beyond the scope of advice
>I can't choose to believe in god. That would be lying to myself
Of course this is impossible, but it is only dependent on the approach. If we can't choose, we must be persuaded, which constitutes another missing thing from this board.
Based on these considerations, I think /adv/ could use some apologetics. I may set up a general thread on Catholic apologetics in the future. This thread will have an emphasis on Catholicism's metaphysical outlooks on the point of life, in order to combat the many other threads on this board detailing the lives of the lonely and depressed. If anyone else wants to take that on I welcome you to, because I think this board could really benefit from a real-world realignment. It may be difficult to do over the internet, but it's not impossible.
Additionally:
Oyish is the board for religion, but it's nothing but theological echo-chambers over there. /adv/ is a practical board more suited to changing someone's life for the better, but not so much for arguing about the filioque.
>if you want to convert incels, you're going to need to reintroduce sexism to the ideology
Ideology connotates unnatural belief. Catholicism is natural. I get what you're trying to say, but don't spin it that way.
So this has existed before? Good to know
I have to ask: Why Catholicism specifically? Why not a more ecumenical approach?
Catholicism has a lot of bugbears and caveats attached to it. You'll turn off a lot of people who might otherwise be amicable to changing their lives. It invites theological debate and schism too:
I asked a religious question on this board once and received responses from numerous different Christian traditions, Protestant and Catholic, and the differing viewpoints were invaluable to solving my problem.
>Catholicism has a lot of bugbears and caveats attached to it.
I'm speaking as a Catholic but those are exactly the sort of things that have kept me in the faith. Catholicism seems to be one of the few if only religions that calls upon the individual to change themselves and orient their life around the faith. Most prod. Denominations are the opposite; they're self affirming and "fit into" ones life style
The bugbears and caveats I'm referring to are things like the historic sale of indulgences, the inquisition, child molestation, etc. The Catholic Church is a unified organization, the outside observer has to accept that this is the 'true' church while also acknowledging its corruption.
>one of the few if only religions that calls upon the individual to change themselves and orient their life around the faith
I would disagree. Any Christian tradition worth its salt will tell you that to be Christian is to make sacrifices.
>Most prod. Denominations are the opposite; they're self affirming and "fit into" ones life style
Protestantism has no unified body or doctrine, so you get those liberal churches who attempt to appeal to atheists by affirming their existing lifestyles. In theory we would look to the Bible and see that this is wrong, but that doesn't always happen in practice. I don't think this is the majority though, tradition is on the rise and the newer generations in the faith are becoming more traditional than their parents. The fire and brimstone style of Protestant Evangelicalism is extremely popular in the United States, and I would never call that a religion that fits into your lifestyle. Not to mention groups like the Amish. Catholicism has done a great job staying true to tradition, if you disagree with a Catholic dogma then you can't be Catholic. You get the same thing with the Anglican and Lutheran traditions. They have doctrinal beliefs and biblical interpretations that must be adhered to in order for you to be a part of the church.
My point is that we both understand that to be a Christian means to change your life, morals, and beliefs in order to please God. Sometimes even radically change them. This isn't a uniquely Catholic idea, so why pigeonhole? You can't determine whether Protestantism, Catholicism, or Orthodoxy are true until you've studied theology and history. This is a process that could take years.
I honestly think Protestant religions tend to get one or two things better, but they always have factors far worse. I also think their leaning solely on the bible makes them insane. If the pope edits the bible for whatever reason there's still a continued tradition. Catholicism does change over time and evolve. Protestants base their entire religions off a book that is a translation of a translation of a translation, and then went ahead and often created figures that function exactly like the pope anyway. Also why not just create your own christ themed religion if you're gonna be protestant? Seems like you have to be a third world moron to get shilled that some average white dude from minnesota has a better connection to god than any other source.
Catholicism specifically because it is philosophically grounded. The problem with ecumenism is exactly that it leaves too much room for argumentation. The deal ought not to budge where it shouldn't, and it shouldn't be more confusing to start on. The whole point is to contextualize why we are where we are, and including Protestantism would only go back to the 1500s. The limited understanding of the the faith occurs because modern people only understand so much.
>If the pope edits the bible for whatever reason
This can't happen lol
>because it is philosophically grounded
Explain. Is Protestantism not philosophically grounded? What about Orthodoxy?
>The problem with ecumenism is exactly that it leaves too much room for argumentation
>The deal ought not to budge where it shouldn't
In necessariis unitas, in dubiis libertas, in omnibus caritas.
I agree with you to an extent, but we can argue all day about where the line should be drawn. We can agree that there should be a line? That there are some things that can be disagreed on, no?
>The whole point is to contextualize why we are where we are, and including Protestantism would only go back to the 1500s
Protestantism historically considered themselves a continuation of the early church and reformation of the then Catholic church. Luther himself used the works of the early church fathers to build his case for reformation. Protestantism didn't just throw away hundreds of years of tradition. You can certainly say that about some of the garbage we have now, but not about the tenets of the Reformation itself.
>The limited understanding of the the faith occurs because modern people only understand so much.
I agree. It is a dreadful hubris to think that you have a greater understanding than your forebears. This is why I think it's so important for the layman to study theology and history.
>Catholicism specifically because it is philosophically grounded
Your American convertard is showing. I understand that you don't think of the father of Protestantism when you hear "Martin Luther," but Protestantism has its own philosophy which sees itself as a continuation of pre-Reformation theology and philosophy, not as an abrupt break.
>I understand that you don't think of the father of Protestantism when you hear "Martin Luther,"
haha i liked that dilbert strip too
but the "philosophy" of lutheranism and all subsequent protestantisms is utterly bankrupt and don't even get me started on c*Lvinism (budget gn*Sticism)
within 100 years it will all dissolve into an admixture of moralistic therapeutic deism and homosex. screencap this post. you know i'm right
>moralistic therapeutic deism
Anyone who uses this term is a living soijak like Dreher who popularized it
>so this has existed before
It used to be a board on 8-chan
>I just don't understand why depressionposters on this board rarely ask about religion
honestly, the average "incel" here is very new to inceldom. this new wave of inceldom is pretty commercial and opposes misogyny/things that Catholocism perpetrates. also, people on this booru are painfully normal, getting blackpilled by neil degrasse tyson, the avengers, rick and morty, etc. if you want to convert incels, you're going to need to reintroduce sexism to the ideology
inb4 its not an ideology
I miss /christian/
>I just don't understand why depressionposters on this board rarely ask about religion
Because I don't expect Oyish to help me with that. Furthermore we're all mildly educated here, most people know it's all a farce, even if playing along with the farce helps heal the heart. Even though I have respect for religion and pray to God myself, in the back of my mind is the feeling that I'm talking to my tulpa
>God exists because He simply must
>But it's three persons in one entity guys
They regularly identify all the correct problems and give all the wrong solutions. So close yet so so far.
>why do people who don't understand the use of a socially unacceptable coping mechanism not run to it immediately when they need to cope
WHY IS WATER WET
>all the wrong solutions
What is your solution?
autism
Why would you convert to a religion that doesn’t allow sex outside of marriage if you wanted pussy, are you moronic
I want a virgin woman to be my wife that also won't leave me and have a shit ton of kids with me. Caths (in theory) promote this hard, though a lot of modern day caths are casuals that act like degenerates anyways. A lot of e-caths want the same thing so they convert for that same reason, though, I'd bet a lot of them can't get it due to being old and late to the party as insufferable nerds obviously only there for pussy they can't get.
>Caths (in theory) promote this hard, though a lot of modern day caths are casuals that act like degenerates anyways
This mindset is a nontrivial portion of the death of religion in the West. Christianity, when it wasn't a religion for moronic brown people like it is now, was far more pragmatic about these things.
Catholicism is extra unappealing because I have to pretend to think Augustus somehow fixed or protected the teachings of the Christ.
No it wasn't, and casual sex spreads HIV. Stop being disgusting and selfish.
Catholicism is moronic because of the non stop veneration/worship of saints and prayer to the dead instead of going through Jesus Christ our one and only intercessor or straight to God Himself. It's literally heretical. I do believe they're still going to Heaven though and they share most of the same core views with other Christians so it's not a huge deal to me. I do admire their love of tradition but it's not always good.
I agree with you, but I think that a lot of people feel like they have more in common with human saints than they do with the ultimate being, and thats why veneration of saints is such a big hit, if that makes sense.
Doesn't change the fact that such tradition directly opposes the textbook it claims to follow. Might as well follow the Quran, Veda, or viking epics if you're just going to ignore core components of Christianity because it feels nicer
>God loves you, except when he doesn't. If someone drunk drives and kills your mom or you get cancer, it's because uhhhh you ate fish on thursday before holy blackface month or whatever
and also
>I don't really get why this isn't a bigger topic on this board.
probably 80% of the posts here are christ shills who like the other anon said are only in it because le based and epic pilled, at any point in time on Oyish they would be rightfully laughed out instead of just quietly ignored for the most part.
The thing I always find curious is the conversions. Have you ever heard or muhammad coming to a guy in the pits of despair and saving him from himself? Have you ever heard of budda revealing himself to some budda hater and instantly converting him to Buddhism? But you have a cascade of Christians with these stories. People simply do not want to believe in a higher power than themselves.
try Oyish for this, unironically
I can't choose to believe in god. That would be lying to myself. There isn't anything you could do to convince me of the existence of god. I like buddhism, but I dislike dogmatic religions like christianity.
>I like buddhism
You dont know anything about buddhism for you to say this. good luck achieving buddhahood with no divine guidance. You probably believe buddha is dead and cant contact you. If God is real you really need to consider what that means from a physical law standpoint. It's a coin flip if he's real to people like you. You don't know fricking shit and are absolutely certain there's no architect to this huge machine with LAWS. If laws were any different life couldn't exist. The fact that we exist and debate if God exists is a product of evolution and is a symptom of the ki d of world we live in. Why if God didn't exist would everyone evolve to argue about him? Why do some people see him then dedicate their life to him? What happened to these people? What causes a millionaire to sell all his things and live in a monastery meditating all day? God is real dum dum. But it's not like you think. Seek truth. And don't seek it from authority. Start speaking to the matrix itself as if it were a person. Keep this habit for one year. Keep a journal of every request you ask it. Ask for things like ultimate truth. Wisdom. Love. Guidance. Forgiveness. God is a little autismo and likes to be alone and observe. And he speaks non verbally. The universe will whisper its secrets it keeps away from ill minded men. Seek truth my friend. And let the world be your guide. If you really like buddhism then wear the shoes. Break free from attachment. It leads to suffering.
>There isn't anything you could do to convince me of the existence of god.
what if i teleported into your house and summoned pillars of brilliant fire that did not consume or destroy anything while a choir of angels behind me sang "HOLY HOLY HOLY LORD GOD OF HOSTS" while flying around in a tesseract looking ass complex plane looking ass pattern
then would u believe
What if we redefined the word "God" so it excludes anything that would reasonably be considered supernatural or magical in any way? What if we just defined it as the sum of all that is "good"?
>an honest apprehension of the religion
Dumb frick, yes, I should 100% take life advice from from you. Maybe people would take religion more seriously if anyone with with a triple digit IQ shilled for it.
and then eventually when youve mastered christianity (aka judaism dlc); you can come to the true religion, islam
i await your reversion brothers
>true religion
LMAO
God Is within my dear yugi boy. Religion not required. I walk this path alone with the father. Everyone else just gets in the fricking way. If you haven't had the vision of God face to face you will always be tard wrangled by people who have.
you communed with the devil and are now wrapped by his lies
its not too late to get out, god will forgive as long as you repent
If you really want to walk the path of Jesus you will get rid of all your crap and walk town to town helping people and only step foot in a church to help. Not worship. Jesus is IN you and catholicism is not required. Living the life of christ is to be a Christian. Not sing songs and pay money to a wizard in a big hat. You can return to the garden of eden. You can be just like Adam. God will reveal himself and you will not hide from him any longer. You will be naked in the garden if eden under God's close watch. You will not claim this nature from ANY church. Churches are started by guys who find things out themselves.
treating religion as a tool from which to derive benefits is exactly why religion (especially christianity as a whole) went to shit. If you're thinking of it in these terms then just frick right off, We don't need any more utilitarian homosexuals
No. Failing to provide concrete social utility is why the West has left the church.
Hey Anon, I am a former Catholic, and if being catholic interests you, There's nothing stopping you from joining your local church.
But you need to research the Vatican, and know the truth of the Pope, and how the church is one of the richest corporate entities in the world, second only to the US government.
It's okay to join a community, but consider whom you're joining carefully. That being said, Catholics have the lowest rate of divorce. Compared to the average 50% it's like 21%.
Honestly I'm always considering it but it doesn't really feel right for a bunch of reasons for me. First, Vatican II and the current gay moronic pope makes me distrustful of the entire institution completely, as both do their best to basically retcon literally thousands of years of tradition for political reasons (aka a bunch of evil israelite's feelings after wwii) which is unbelievablely moronic on multiple levels that I shouldn't need to get into with people on Oyish of all places as you should already know why that's bad. Second, I don't want to join a church without the full knowledge that it's the correct church. I don't want to go through the process of becoming a Catholic and realize a year later that lol the Orthodox guys were right all along. I just don't want to die and go to hell for being wrong. Additionally to that point I'm scared to join a church simply because I want friends and a girlfriend. Like I desperately want those things and I know church can open up opportunities for that, but I don't want to be that homosexual that goes to church for that reason. If I did I that I would have just given up and became Mormon or something. Could have easily gotten married and at least lived a happy life years ago if I just gave up and bit that bullet, but noooo, I just have to be right in my choice that I can't bear to make. That's made more frustrating because I'm getting older by the day and my opportunities of getting what I want dwindle by the day. What kind of younger virgin woman who wants kids wants to marry a guy like over five years older than them (I'm almost 23). Same with friend groups. Nobody likes including new people in their groups, especially me. It's made all worse because that shouldn't be a reason to join church but deep down that's the biggest motivator for me and it disgusts me because I know God comes first. Idk man it's very frustrating.
>I just don't want to die and go to hell for being wrong.
There are very few people that would tell you that you go to hell for joining the wrong church, barring outright heresy. Maybe that's my Protestant brain talking. Either way with this way of thinking you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Catechumens go to heaven, don't they? Is that not kind of where you are now?
Have you been studying the different Christian traditions? Are you any closer to choosing a church say now than you were a year ago? Have you tried attending different churches before? Do you currently attend any church at all?
Your fixation on friends and gf should not be reason enough for you to be in stasis like this. We're all sinners.
Get your ass in gear anon. Pray for guidance.
>Have you been studying the different Christian traditions?
I was but then over complicated it and gave up and I struggle to get back on my feet because when I do I basically write a block of text in my head like the previous comment then feel bad, stupid, and wrong.
>Are you any closer to choosing a church say now than you were a year ago?
I'm farther away now than I was in highschool. Almost 23 as I said earlier.
>Have you tried attending different churches before? Do you currently attend any church at all?
Not by myself and the only people that could even take me all stopped talking to me after highschool like everyone else did. If it isn't clear the little to no friends thing is a massive fixation that negatively affects my life pretty harshly.
>Not by myself
Anon you HAVE to go to church. How the hell do you expect to choose the right church if you don't even attend them? You need to see how they worship, you need to talk to their priests and pastors, there is literally no other way. You should be going to church every single Sunday even if you aren't necessarily a member of that church.
You recognize that this fixation is ultimately irrational and getting you nowhere right? Personally I think what would be best for you is to just join a church. There are countless people who attend the 'wrong' church for years before finally converting to another, I really don't see why you can't possibly do the same.
You're right. I'm just scared honestly. Both of being wrong and going by myself. It's stupid and I need to stop.
>There are countless people who attend the 'wrong' church for years before finally converting to another, I really don't see why you can't possibly do the same.
Shopping for a church is really gay. You should stick to the tradition of your parents and grandparents unless you have a very good reason to convert.
If you have atheist parents "shopping for a church" is literally all you can do. And just because your parents follow a tradition doesn't mean it's the correct one. Christianity has thousands of years of history behind it, it isn't so simple to say that one church or the other is definitively 100% the correct one all other be damned.
The people in Plato's cave never considered there to be anything outside the shadows on the wall. How can you know that you aren't watching shadows unless you do a little church shopping?
>I don't want to go through the process of becoming a Catholic and realize a year later that lol the Orthodox guys were right all along
Speaking as a Catholic who's delved deeply into the theological basis of the faith, you really shouldn't be all that worried about it.
First of all, every church welcomes converts – whether it's Catholicism, Orthodoxy, or one of the thousand different Protestant denominations out there. I'm sure that if you can explain to whichever one you ultimately decide is "right" that THESE are the theological points you agree with them on, and what makes them stand apart, then they'll be happy to have you, regardless of whether or not you were a member of another religion when you figured those points out.
Second of all, though, there really is no better way of figuring out what those theological points ARE than to already be an involved member of a church. It helps you find resources, and even if some of those resources start telling you that some things should be different, well, you've learned your way around the right "framework" to think about divinity which you can then insert new tenets/dogma into. I'm sure if I found some argument, well-explained with extremely solid footing that convinced me that Muhammad really did have everything right, I'd be much better off after converting because of all the work I've already done in Catholicism to examine my own beliefs and make sure they make coherent sense to me.
Ultimately, I think it's to your advantage to get started sooner than later. I can't tell you where your path will end up – I hope it's with us, but I can't fault anyone who chooses a different religion, so long as they've taken a serious look at the theology and where everything comes from and decided for themselves that it makes sense. But I can tell you that if you don't start down A path, then it won't go anywhere.
Godspeed, anon. And good luck. I would say read the Summa Theologiae, but that's a bit advanced.
My misanthropy and issues won’t go away just because some old israeli book crafted by man for the purpose of enslaving man is also full of false positives like your run of the mill borderline arthoe. If you want to larp as some trad clown who can’t even follow scripture beyond a few days max anyways then go ahead, but at least have the balls to say its literally just cope so you feel like this isn’t it and that you aren’t the lowly state you alrady are. Your psychotic need to constantly proselytize already says enough.
I'll say I honestly don't know the answer and that makes me feel it's not for me, but I sorta miss it. Weird. I used to hate church when I was a kid.
been there done that got the catechism. im not sold. the desert mothers and fathers are the closest to the jesus way - living simply and being generous. everything else is vanity and spiritual materialism.
>Anyone who uses this term is a living soijak like Dreher who popularized it
kek newbie doesn't know how to reply to people
>kek newbie doesn't know how to reply to people
>(You)
Don't you mean Roman Catholicism?
Have you gone to Rome?
the catholic church is the largest pederast organization on the planet
No that's the American public school system, the American government, or the Israeli government.
Teachers molest at a higher rate than anyone else and Israel is a den of pedophiles according to themselves like
said
not really interested in joining a corporate pedophiliac cult. having the un going goblin mode is enough
>let me delude myself with tales of a skydaddy who is his own father and sometimes is in his flatulence form. This will give everything meaning !
Are you trying to up your scorecard for saved souls because your kiddie diddling priest told you it'll get you to heaven faster or something ?
Catholicism is the true church guys, trust me. You just have to ignore
>the corruption rampant throughout the ages
>that the church and priesthood cling to temporal power and material wealth (catholic church is possibly the wealthiest institution in the world)
>that the bishop of rome never held any primacy until hundreds of years after Christ
>that the early church fathers never once mentioned a pope or viewed the bishop of rome as any kind of authority
>that their doctrine of justification is contrary to Holy Scripture
Why specifically Catholicism?
Living by the teachings of most religions will likely force you to live against yourself.
For instance if you’re a catholic you can’t eat meat on Fridays, but what if I want to eat meat and it happens to be a Friday?
This is a childish example, yes, but there are more serious examples like if someone happens to be gay, which the catholic doctrine isn’t fond of.
Religion used to exist to keep the peasants obedient, these days it exists so NPC’s don’t have to accept the absurd and so Oyishners can larp.
>these days it exists so NPC’s don’t have to accept the absurd
"accepting the absurd" is the most moronic meme and it breaks my heart that people think it's profound or whatever
>dude just imagine sisyphus happy lol
sisyphus is damned to repeatedly perform a laborious and meaningless task for the perpetuity of existence. to imagine him happy is to go completely insane.
likewise, to find happiness in a world where you're doomed to sing for your supper until your mind and body fall apart until you are eventually annihilated is...
well, it's an unappealing idea, to say the least.
we as humans like to know the truth about things, but we also like comfort. and that idea is so uncomfortable that if you've built your worldview around it, you must have a rock-solid reason for doing so, right? unimpeachable proof that to even hope for your soul's repose in the hereafter is foolish or unreasonable? right??
like check this guy out:
>There isn't anything you could do to convince me of the existence of god.
imagine being this certain about anything! how? what epistemic hat trick are you pulling off to do that? by what virtue are people so convinced of shit like this??
i think you're making yourselves sick!!!!
I'm an atheist, but I really like most things about Catholicism. The one big sticking point for me, is the problem of evil. Why do bad things happen to good people? I know the common answer is free will, but this is really unsatisfactory. Lots of horrific things happen to good people and are no one's fault. Who's fault was the Indonesian Tsunami that killed ~250,000 people and caused untold suffering for who knows how many more? Surely they weren't all irredeemable sinners. Who's fault are birth defects? What did those babies do to deserve such a short, agonizing life?
And even if you want to talk about suffering people actually do cause, how can god be benevolent and allow it? Imagine you're a father, and some madman screams he's gonna kill your 4yo son and comes running at him with a hammer. You're gonna do your best to stop him right? You're not gonna just be like "Oh well, that's just his free will!". Imagine your kid is about to walk into traffic, are you just gonna be like "Welp, that's human's sinful nature for ya". Frick no, you're gonna grab him. The church constantly uses parental language about god; they call him father, call us his children, but he really doesn't act like it.
What's more, he supposedly created everything, even all abstract things like good, evil, free will, and suffering in the first place. He created the idea of free will itself. So he could easily have created good and free will without needing to also create evil and suffering. If he couldn't, then he's not omnipotent and is limited by the definitions of those concepts.
I really want to believe, my life would be so much better if I did. But I just don't.
i feel mostly the same way.
I understand that we as people are not in Eden anymore and therefore must suffer as punishment for disobeying God ("you will toil all your days" and whatnot) so, to a point, I can get the Cath reasoning behind kids or innocents dying. It's a punishment, it's not supposed to be fun. It's therefore our duty as followers to rise above our base human emotions and reactions and devote ourselves fully to God (I guess).
Here's my thing: why was the serpent in Eden in the first place if it was supposed to be paradise? Did He make human nature (meaning able to be tempted to act less than ideally) as it was and just decide to throw the serpent in for the hell of it? To test a hypothesis? Or is Genesis simply supposed to show a metaphor of how human beings can easily fall from unity with God due to temptation away from Him?
I was raised Catholic and became... an atheist, I guess. I didn't have many problems with the actual religion, but rather the people who followed it. I am bisexual and have several mental illnesses and Catholics constantly told me it was a punishment for not being good enough. I did everything I could to follow the rules and people who didn't even try would preach to me. It was infuriating. Then when I was 14, my best friend died of a seizure. The Catholics told me I caused her death by not praying hard enough when she was hospitalised. They also said God has a plan for everything. Also, I know several people who have had their babies die. Again - all a part of God's plan? Cool, God can frick off then. There is no justification for killing senselessly.
As far as I'm concerned, there definitely is a God that exists, but I don't want anything to do with him. I don't know if that makes me an atheist or whatever.
I wish I could still find joy in religion. I remember enjoying reading the Bible, especially Revelations. I do respect Catholics I meet these days, I just hate the ones I grew up with and can't bring myself to go back to the religion because of it. Good thread, OP.
Do yourself a favor and read a book by Sagan, Harris or Dawkins before deluding yourself with imaginable copes. Just work on yourself and have someone supportive around you. Rather explore topics that truly interest you than trying to be a trillionth follower of a cult of old men that makes less and less sense as time goes on.
I've grown up catholic but have been thinking about it / doubting it and other regional / local beliefs since I was a teen and after years or reading different shit I came to a conclusion that atheism makes the most sense. I'd love if someone would change my mind and gave me a reasonable argument for the existence of a christian or any other god tho. Just my experience and opinion.