Are the rumors true? Is Nusayri-Alawism a form of crypto-christianity?

Are the rumors true? Is Nusayri-Alawism a form of crypto-christianity?

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  1. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    no

    t. alawi

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      Why do you guys take a fake form of communion then?

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        we dont

        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous

          That's because your elders hide it from you. It's initiatory after all

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >let me tell you about your religion

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Ok. So what makes Alawism distinct from mainstream Twelver Shiism? If you're the same as them why don't you cal yourselves Twelver Shia?

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            we dont have aqida, fiqh or anything legalistic, we just believe whatever we want or what our sheikhs tell us

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >we just believe whatever we want
            >i think pork is not haram
            Damn nice finesse
            >or what our sheikhs tell us
            They'd never lie to you right?

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >religious person accepts the teachings of their elders
            nta but can you at least microwave your takes first?

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            The point is more so that because Alawism is initiatory, it's inevitable that your sheikhs will lie to you if you're below a certain paygrade. Obviously you're going to follow what your clerics say if you belong to an organised religion whatever that religion may be

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Better, thanks. I'll go back to lurking now.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            [...]
            You're not even talking to the same anon as before. I'm the former anon. I'm willing to accept you're not Twelvers. Though, I am surprised by this given that I've heard Alawis talk about the coming of the Mahdi

            >we dont have aqida
            Also, what is the source of your theology then?

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            our sheikhs were told in the lineage of ibn nusayr, they all claim he told them

            So he said he was a Syrian Alevi, or an ethnic Kurdish or Turkish Alevi? And why did sect even come up?

            no he just said he was gay for ataturk, jokes aside, your religion is on your passport in all caps in turkey

            Thank you very much for this extract anon. It's no surprise then that I hear of Alawis being prominent in the Freemason community

            now that you mention it, i did attend a freemasonry lodge for a while

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            we dont have aqida, fiqh or anything legalistic, we just believe whatever we want or what our sheikhs tell us

            What are your interactions with or thoughts on Alevi and Bektashi, if any?
            Are you Syrian or Lebanese?

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            im syrian, my dad got through turkish customs by larping as an alevi

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            So he said he was a Syrian Alevi, or an ethnic Kurdish or Turkish Alevi? And why did sect even come up?

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Ok. So what makes Alawism distinct from mainstream Twelver Shiism
            they don't have twelve imams for one

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >they don't have twelve imams for one
            They do.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            They don't. Ibn Nusayr declared himself bab and the successor of the 11th imam and was excommunicated by the four envoys

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            So you admit that they believe in the Twelve Imams, with the 12th one being the only different one then.
            And isn't Ibn Nusayr rejected by Alawites?

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >So you admit that they believe in the Twelve Imams
            learn to count
            >with the 12th one being the only different one then
            calling yourself bab is different moron
            >And isn't Ibn Nusayr rejected by Alawites?
            equivalent of saying do Shia reject Ali

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >equivalent of saying do Shia reject Ali
            Okay, so know you seem to confirm you have no clue what you're talking about. Ibn Nusayr was rejected by the Alawites down the line and Nusayri is used as a slur by opponents and not by Alawites themselves.

            >learn to count
            11+1=12. Or are you saying they have 11 Imams and not 12.
            Each Shia sect has a different system of Imamate. Only specific sects have 12 Imams, including Alawites. Who the Mahdi is, has always varied between all Muslim sects in general. The rest of the Alawite's Imams are the same as the Alevis and Ithna'ashari Shia. The other Shia sects have different Imams beyond the first two or three or five shared ones.

            >calling yourself bab is different moron
            Bab just means Gate. You need to be more specific about what you're fricking talking about instead of being a vague troony. Did you wake up from bed with your butthole in more pain than usual or something?

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Okay, so know you seem to confirm you have no clue what you're talking about. Ibn Nusayr was rejected by the Alawites down the line and Nusayri is used as a slur by opponents and not by Alawites themselves.
            You're moronic. The alawite term is a 20th century thing
            >Who the Mahdi is, has always varied between all Muslim sects in general. The rest of the Alawite's Imams are the same as the Alevis and Ithna'ashari Shia
            You are moronic. Ithna ashari just means twelver. If you deny the existence of the son of the 11th imam then you can't be an ithna ashari shia.
            >Bab just means Gate. You need to be more specific about what you're fricking talking about instead of being a vague troony. Did you wake up from bed with your butthole in more pain than usual or something?
            And imam means leader. It's amazing how moronic you are. Those who declared themselves bab sought to end the imamate and claimed to inherit authority of the imam of their choosing.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >11+1=12. Or are you saying they have 11 Imams and not 12.
            Do you need to be told? Are you really that moronic?

            You're not even talking to the same anon as before. I'm the former anon. I'm willing to accept you're not Twelvers. Though, I am surprised by this given that I've heard Alawis talk about the coming of the Mahdi

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >11+1=12. Or are you saying they have 11 Imams and not 12.
            Do you need to be told? Are you really that moronic?

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >The initiation ceremonies are thus described. On a certain day there was a general gathering of high and low of the Nusairis of Adhanah, belonging to that division of the sect known as Northerners,1 before whom he was summoned, when he was presented with a glass of wine. One whom he describes as the Pursuiva'nt, or Director of Ceremonies, took a place at his side, and said to him: "Say thou : By the mystery of thy beneficence, O my Uncle and lord, thou crown of my head, I am thy pupil, and let thy sandal be upon my head." When he had drunk the wine, the Imaum turned towards him, and asked: "Wouldst thou take up the sandals of those here present, to do honour to thy Lord ? " to which he replied, " Nay, but only the sandal of my lord; " whereupon the company laughed at his want of docility. Then the Minister (Deacon), being so directed by the assembly, brought to them the sandal of the Pursuivant: and when they had uncovered the Candidate's head, they laid it thereon, and put over it a white rag : after which the Pursuivant began to pray over him that he might receive the mystery. When this prayer was ended, the sandal was taken from his head, he was enjoined secrecy, and all dispersed. This is what is called the Betokening Adoption. After forty days, another assembly was convened, another cup of wine was drunk by the Candidate, and he was directed to say: "In the faith of the mystery of Ain-Mim-Sin," which Sulaiman thus explains : Ain stands for Ali, or the Archetypal Deity: Mim for Mohammed, or the Expressed Deity, or the Intermediary: Sin for Salman-al-Farsi, or the Communicator. The Candidate was charged by the Imaum to pronounce the cabalistic word composed of these three letters, namely AMS, five hundred times a day. As before, secrecy was enjoined, and the so called King's Adoption was now accomplished.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Another interval of probation, lasting seven months (often extended to nine) having passed away, the Candidate was called before another assembly, in whose presence he stood at a respectful distance. Then a Deputy rose in the assembly, having the Pursuivant on his right, and another official on his left, each with a cup of wine in his hand; all, turning to the Imaum, chanted the third Melody. After this, the whole assembly, facing the Second Preceptor on the Deputy's left, known as the Dignitary, chanted to him the following: "I inquire after the traits of nobleness where dwell they? To thee have certain men pointed me. By the reality of Mohammed and his race, compassionate one who comes to kiss thy hands. Thou art my goal, let not my thought of thee prove vain : account us to-day as depending upon thee."

            >After this, they placed their hands on the Preceptor's and sat down. Then the Preceptor stood up, took the Deputy's cup from his hand, bowed his head in worship, and read the Chapter of" Bowing of the Head" (seep. 159). Having recited this litany, he raised his head, and read the Chapter of the " Ain " (see p. 161). After this, he stood with his face towards the Imaum, and said : " Hail, hail, hail, O my lord Imaum ! " To this the Imaum replied, "May it be well with thee, and those around thee! Thou hast done that which these here assembled have not done; for thou hast taken in thy hand the cup, hast drunk, hast bowed the head, and saluted ; and to God is humble worship due. But what is thy desire, and what wouldst thou ? " To this the Dignitary answered: " I would have an evening of the countenance of my Master" : then retiring, he looked towards the heavens, and came back to the assembly, and said: "Hail, hail, hail, O my lord," to which the Imaum replied as before : " What is thy desire, and what wouldst thou? The Dignitary said: "I have a desire, and would it might be sanctioned." The Imaum replied: "Go to, I sanction it."

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >The Dignitary then stepped aside from the assembly, and approached the Candidate, to give him an opportunity to kiss his hands and feet : which being done, he returned, and said : " Hail, hail, hail, O my lord Imaum." Then the Imaum said to him again: "What is thy wish, and what wouldst thou? " To this he answered : " A person has presented himself to me in the way." Again the Imaum spoke: "Hast thou not heard what was said by our elect lord: • As for the nightmare duty, no man of might can take it patiently?'" The Dignitary replied: "I have a stout heart, no fear for me "-then after regarding the Candidate, he turned towards the assembly, and said: "This person, named so-and-so, has come to be initiated in your presence." The Imaum then inquired: " Who directed him to us?" To this the Dignitary replied "The Eternal Archetypal Deity, the august Expressed Deity, and the honoured Communicator, signified by the word AMS." The Imaum said: "Bring him, that we may see him"; whereupon the Preceptor took him by the right hand, and led him towards the Imaum. On his approach, the Imaum stretched out his feet, which the Candidate kissed, and also his hands, and said to him: "What is thy desire, and what wouldst thou, O young man ? " Thereupon the Pursuivant arose, and station ing himself at the Candidate's side, instructed him to say : " I ask for the mystery of your faith, O multitudes of believers." Then, eyeing him with a stern look, the Imaum said: "What impels thee to seek from us this mystery, crowned with pearls large and small, which only a familiar angel, or a commissioned prophet, can support? Know, O my child, that there are many angels, but that only the Familiars can support this mystery ; and that the prophets are numerous, but that only the Commissioned can support this mystery: and that there are many believers, but that only the Approved can support this mystery.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Wilt thou suffer the cutting off of thy head, hands and feet, and not disclose this august mystery? " To this the Candidate replied: "Yes." Thereupon the Imaum said : "I wish thee to furnish a hundred sponsors," at which those present interposed: " The rule, O our lord Imaum "-and hesaid, "In deference to you, let there be twelve sponsors." Then the Second Preceptor stood up, and kissed the hands of the twelve sponsors, and the Candidate kissed their hands. Then the sponsors rose, and said : " Hail, hail, hail, O my lord Imaum," and the Imaum said, " What is your desire, ye nobles? " To this they replied: "We have come to be sponsors for this Candidate." Then the Imaum inquired : " In case he discloses this mystery, will ye bring him to me, that we may cut him in pieces and drink his blood? " They answered: "Yes," and he added: "I am not satisfied with your sponsorship alone-nay, but I would have two persons of consideration to be responsible for you." So one of the sponsors ran, with the Candidate after him, and kissed the hands of the two required sponsors, whose hands the Candidate also kissed.

            After this the two selected sponsors stood up, with their hands on their breasts ; and the Imaum turned towards them, and said: "God give you a good evening, O sponsors, respected and pure, men of mark, and no sucklings! But what would ye? " They replied: "We have come to be sponsors for the twelve sponsors, and also for this person." The Imaum replied: " In case, then, he runs off before having fully learned our forms of prayer, or discloses this mystery, will ye two bring him to me, that we may take his life ? " They replied : " Yes," and the lmaum spoke again : " Sponsors are perishable, and sponsors for sponsors abide not-I would have from him something that will last." They then gave way, and the Imaum said to the Candidate: "Come near to me, O young man;" so he approached him, and at the same time the Imaum adjured him, by all the heavenly bodies,

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >that he would not disclose this mystery: and afterwards gave into his right hand the Book of the Summary, while the Pursuivant, stationed at his side, instructed him to say : " Be thou extolled ! Swear me, O my lord Imaum, to this august mystery, and thou shalt be clear of any failure in me." Taking the book from him, the Imaum said: "O, my child, I swear thee, not in respect to money, or suretyship-nay, but in respect only to the mystery of Goo, as our chiefs and lords have sworn us." This action and these words he repeated three times; after which the Candidate placed his hand upon the Summary three times, making oath thereby to the Imaum, that he would not disclose this mystery so long as he should live.

            >After this the Imaum said : " Know, O my child, that the earth will not suffer thee to be buried in it, shouldst thou disclose this mystery ; and thy return will not be to enter into human vestments-nay, but, when thou diest, thou wilt enter into vestments of degrading transformation, from which there will be no deliverance for thee, for ever." Then they seated the Candidate among them, and uncovering his head, put a veil over it; the sponsors placed their hands upon his head, and began to pray: first, they read the Chapters of Victory, Bowing the Head, and the Ain: then, after drinking some wine, they read also the Chapter of Salutation, and raised their hands from off his head. Next the Introducing Dignitary took hold of him, and made him salute the First Preceptor and then, taking a cup of wine in his hand, gave him drink, and instructed him to say : " In Goo's name, by the help of Gon, and in the faith of the mystery of Lord Abu Abdallah, possessor of divine knowledge, in the faith of the mystery of his blessed memorial, in the faith of his mystery-God give him happiness." After this the assembly then dispersed.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            From the book "Secret Sects of Syria and the Lebanon: A Consideration of Their Origin, Creeds and Religious Ceremonies, and Their Connection With and Influence Upon Modern Freemasonry"

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Thank you very much for this extract anon. It's no surprise then that I hear of Alawis being prominent in the Freemason community

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            *but in respect only to the mystery of God

  2. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    Its more that they were inspired by/in dialogue with Platonism (like Trinitarianism) and possibly Christianity as well. Egypt at the time of Ibn-Nusayr was still more than half christian, same goes for many parts of the levant as well.

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      interesting theory

  3. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    All Islam is a sect of Christianity.

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      And all Christianity is a sect of Judaism.

  4. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    yes the ancient ghulat were chads who unashamedly declared Ali or other imams as Gods. Alawis, Alevis, etc are degenerated christians with the same copes

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