Why didn't the Quran have a succession plan?

Why didn't the Quran have a succession plan?

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  1. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Apparently the Prophet died before writing a will, although some claim the will was hidden and never showed because certain actors didn't like the outcome

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Why didn't Allah preserve his greatest prophet's will?

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Why should he? He preserved what he in his infinite grace wanted to preserve, which was his Word(s).

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          So there wouldn't be two divergent theologies and an Ummah at war with itself?

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            the sunnah-shia discourse is not about political succession, the shia sect evolved in medieval ages into what it later became

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >3/4 Rashidun caliphs murdered
            >it's not about politics bro

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Umar was stabbed by a persian, Uthman let the khawarij kill him because he didnt want bloodshed, Ali was killed by the khawaarij, what are you saying?

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Sounds very human

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Najam Haider "Origins of the Shi'a" argued that as a sect, the Shi'a probably started in the last years of caliph Walid bin 'Abdalmalik. It certainly was around under Hisham.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            These arguments when it started are dumb because people were calling themselves shi'at Ali in his own lifetime.
            >inb4 it was only poltical
            Din Ali (Religion of Ali) and Shi'at Ali were used together

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          Indeed, He preserved the Bible, al hamdulillah!

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Apparently the Prophet died before writing a will,
      Muhammad already declared Ali as his successor at Ghadir Khumm

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Muhammad already declared Ali as his friend at Ghadir Khumm

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          I don't really get that cope. It just lends itself to support the shia. I do know some modern sunnis deny ghadirr khumm ever happened which makes more sense from a sunni point of view

  2. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Muhammad wanted to write something down at his deathbed but his followers stopped him

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Trust me bro

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >it was revealed to me in a dream

        >the evidence was destroyed centuries ago
        >just trust me bro it was revealed to me i a dream
        kys

        We have a butthurt Ṣaḥāba fanboy here

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          Not him and I didnt read the thread so its pretty funny he wrote the exact same shit.
          Still, your dreams are not facts

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Its in your own hadith collections

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >it was revealed to me in a dream

        >the evidence was destroyed centuries ago
        >just trust me bro it was revealed to me i a dream
        kys

        Narrated Ibn `Abbas:

        When Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) was on his death-bed and in the house there were some people among whom was `Umar bin Al-Khattab, the Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Come, let me write for you a statement after which you will not go astray." `Umar said, "The Prophet (ﷺ) is seriously ill and you have the Qur'an; so the Book of Allah is enough for us." The people present in the house differed and quarrelled. Some said "Go near so that the Prophet (ﷺ) may write for you a statement after which you will not go astray," while the others said as `Umar said. When they caused a hue and cry before the Prophet, Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "Go away!" Narrated 'Ubaidullah: Ibn `Abbas used to say, "It was very unfortunate that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise

        Sahih al-Bukhari 5669

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >it was revealed to me in a dream

        >the evidence was destroyed centuries ago
        >just trust me bro it was revealed to me i a dream
        kys

        Do you idiots think we can't easily check?

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >it was revealed to me in a dream

        >the evidence was destroyed centuries ago
        >just trust me bro it was revealed to me i a dream
        kys

        This posts prove Muslims don't even know their own religion

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >it was revealed to me in a dream

  3. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    It is a matter of the islamic community, the prophet sallallahu aleyhi wa sallam withheld from writing a will

    The Qur'an says: "Allah has promised to those among you who believe and do righteous deeds that He will assuredly make them to succeed (the present) rulers and grant them vicegerency in the land just as He made those before them to succeed (others)"

  4. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    allah was doin' a little trollin'

  5. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    He wrote demanding the succession of his son in-law. Certain *elements* in his retinues didnt liked it to and destroyed the evidences.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >the evidence was destroyed centuries ago
      >just trust me bro it was revealed to me i a dream
      kys

  6. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    The real Quran had a succession plan
    https://answering-islam.org/Quran/Miracle/wilaya.html

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >implying that isn't a heretical forgery

  7. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Q. 24:55.
    Patricia Crone remarked that this sura contradicts the Verse of Stoning and might not be authentic

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Patricia Crone
      Opinion dismissed. it's like taking archeology advice from Graham Hanwiener

  8. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Muhammad did appoint Ali as his successor and it was very clear and straightforward. Muhammad was not taken that seriously by his lifetime followers for the most part.

  9. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    The quran was written by morons.
    It seeks to prove Christianity was a corruption, but the dickheads who wrote it did not even know how to define the Holy Trinity.
    Believe it or not the word "Trinity" does not exist in the quran.
    Other things that do not exist in the quran:
    - The shahada
    - The five pillars of islam
    - The five daily prayers
    - Prohibition of alcohol
    But we get some nice stories about ants and birds talking, so I guess all the important parts are there.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >The quran was written by morons.
      I disagree. There's clearly a high degree of poetic mastery behind the Quran. Ya-Sin, for example, is a masterpiece of euphonious lyric poetry. The thing is, that's all the Quran is for me - a collection of religiously themed poetry, some of which is very enjoyable to listen to.

      You don't really have the basis for a religion when you read the Quran on its own. You can just as easily read it as a polemic in favour of Torah-observant anti-trinitarian Christianity instead of something advocating a new religious tradition in and of itself. Take away the scaffolding of the Hadith, the Sira and the foundational Tafsirs and there isn't much substance left to Islam at all, which is where I think your post has a lot of validity.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Whoever wrote the Quran didn't even know what the Trinity was, they thought it was a group composed of 3 beings that included Mary. Calling it a polemic is too heavy a title for it.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Shahada is *alluded* by the Quran. Sura 63 starts by quoting munafiqs who say to the qari, "we bear witness that you are the rasulallahi". That implies that there was already a formula "we bear witness [the qari] is the rasulallahi". The qari is usually considered to be the Muhammad of suwar 3, 33, 47, 48 (leaving aside 61's Ahmad).
      Remember that qudsi exist. Not all the revelations and commandments to Muhammad were delivered in Quran form.

  10. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    my knowledge of islam comes from ck2/3 and there they said ali was the rightful successor

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >ck2/3 and there they said ali was the rightful successor
      doubt

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        they say ali was chosen by muhmomid but no one gave a shit and when ali finally got the caliphate he was a moron and wimpy gay and ended up getting jihaded and assassinated by his main supporters, the khajiits

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          >they say ali was chosen by muhmomid
          Even if that were true Umar was choose by the people. If anything this strife can be seen as strife between republicanism and monarchism. Does the ruler inherit his rule for previous rule or appointed of previous ruler, or do people have a say in it as to who gets appointed? The history is clear, that even if Ali was appointed to rule, he stepped down and accepted the will of the people, meaning he implicitly also supported republicanism.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            There's nothing more amusing than a mpdern muslim trying add democracy to their history a concept that never existed in their history.
            Abu Bakr was appointed after a secret meeting
            Umar was appointed by Abu Bakr
            Uthman was chosen by a small group of men decided by Umar.
            Ali was forced into power by the angry medinan mob

            Republicanism? Frick no.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >There's nothing more amusing than a mpdern muslim trying add democracy to their history a concept that never existed in their history.
            There's nothing more amusing than a traditionalist Muslim who is way out of his depth with the world long past by him.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >he thinks I'm a muslim
            Still nice for you to admit you were pulling shit out of your ass

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Then wtf are you doing labeling someone modern Muslim, or any other kind, if you're a kafir?

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Are you moronic? Can you not read?
            I'm mocking you for trying to insert a concept your people never had into your history. I'm calling you modern because a medieval muslim would have no idea what republicanism is.

  11. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    The Quran and the coming-into-being of the holy a succession plan. God provides prophecy.

  12. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    >jarvis. take the bible, replace all references of jesus with me. call it i slam.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >jarvis, take the bible, delete every mention of jesus, allow me to frick little girls and have a harem, call it I Slam

  13. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Even if Ali suceeded Muhammad he was hated by many of muhammad's followers since he killed their fathers and brothers

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Like who?

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        The family of abu sufyan and other meccans. They are the ones who ate parts of Muhammad and Ali's uncle after that uncle was killed were welcomed with open arms by muhammad into the new religion. They had a grudge against Ali too.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      The family of abu sufyan and other meccans. They are the ones who ate parts of Muhammad and Ali's uncle after that uncle was killed were welcomed with open arms by muhammad into the new religion. They had a grudge against Ali too.

      Outright admitting Islam was take over by last minute converters that opposed Muhammad (pbuh) up to the very last day like Mu'awiya

      Thanks to prove our point Ṣaḥāba fanboy

  14. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    >sunnis: the caliph must be of the quraysh
    >shia:the imam must be of Ali's progeny
    So republican

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      : the caliph must be of the quraysh
      Yes, however even this was later dropped during the Abbasid rule, and in theory anyone could become one

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >however even this was later dropped during the Abbasid rule
        No it wasn't. The requirement was not droped because you can't drop it
        >and in theory anyone could become one
        Nobody after the abbasids was universally recognized as caliphs.

  15. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Allah thought it would be really fricking funny (it was).

  16. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Bar Aisha lanat

  17. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad and Ali are his messengers.

  18. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because the quran was written long after mohammad's death

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Because the quran was written long after mohammad's death

      that cant be right. i remember reading about some early caliphs autism about quran translations for their subjects that spoke different languages

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        the modern Quran is a document made up by uthman to justify existing rule of persia and the ERE by the Caliphate

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