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  1. 5 months ago
    Dirk

    What's the question?

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      I thought we were justified by faith alone?

      • 5 months ago
        Dirk

        Yes in the sense of forensic justification before God
        >“You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God.” (Jam 2:22-23, ESV)

        How do you reconcile your view of James 2 with Ephesians 2?
        >“For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.” (Eph 2:8-9, ESV)

        Salvation (justification is an aspect of salvation) is "through faith", "not of works." Works "complete faith", and "faith without works is dead."
        The classical protestant take is that saving faith necessarily results in works.
        The catholic take according to that church's catechism is that works contribute to the attainment of eternal life, directly contradicting Ephesians 2 among other passages.

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          >How do you reconcile your view of James 2 with Ephesians 2?
          Nobody ever disputes that salvation is through faith. We dispute that merely thinking in your head that Christ saves you is biblical belief.
          Nta

          • 5 months ago
            Dirk

            "Not of works"

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Correct. Nobody ever disputes that salvation is through faith, aka "Not of works". We dispute that merely thinking in your head that Christ saves you is biblical belief.

          • 5 months ago
            Dirk

            We also deny that idea.
            "Through faith" and "not of works" are not exactly synonymous.

            The catholic catechism claims:
            >We can merit for ourselves ... the graces needed for ... the attainment of eternal life
            http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2010.htm

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification
            >Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.
            They're not saying you can save yourself. They're saying the process of sanctification is your doing as well as that of grace. Synregy is not a "saved by works" concept. Dirk, you're smarter than this, was that really an honest argument you just laid out?

          • 5 months ago
            Dirk

            They're clearly saying works contribute to salvation alongside faith. Not just sanctification, "the attainment of eternal life". Protestants say works follow salvation but don't contribute. The catholic view violates "not of works."

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >They're clearly saying works contribute to salvation alongside faith
            And in the last sentence they make it clear these works are nothing without divine grace. It is of grace. Not of works.

            Can you honestly not imagine what a comlpetely work-based salvation would look like? Look at israelites. They follow many rules that Christians preach, even better than monks sometimes. And they think that is sufficient. That is work-based salvation. "God, give me strength to be holy and join your kingdom" is not work-based salvation lol.

          • 5 months ago
            Dirk

            >can you honestly not imagine...
            I'm not accusing Catholics of having a completely works based salvation. Never said that. I'm saying their soteriology is wrong so far as it considers works to contribute to justification at all.
            They're not unique here either, Adventists for example have the same problem.

            Remember that it's Rome who anathematized my view and not vice versa

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >it considers works to contribute to justification at all
            And it doesn't.
            >>>>>no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification
            Justification is literally pointed out as not being merited.

            Synergy is not wrong, never has been. It's "works are only ever fruits and demonstrations" that's wrong.

          • 5 months ago
            Dirk

            I didn't think that this paragraph and catholic theology broadly understood justification to be a once-for-all event. Justification entails the attainment of eternal life. If works contribute to that attainment, one is not yet justified in the final sense.
            In catholic theology if a man loses his salvation he loses his justification, right?

            "Works" refers to works of the Law. "Good works" always refers to acts done in charity, which are prerequisite for salvation.

            >"Works" (exclusively) refers to works of the Law
            How do you know?

            >Which are prerequisite for salvation
            This passage says the exact opposite
            Saved by grace, through faith, not of works. FOR, (this is because) we're created for works.

            The whole story of creation and salvation is so that we can do good works, according to this passage.
            Salvation -> works

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Justification entails the attainment of eternal life.
            They are used as different terms in the text you provided. I see why you would feel like you're allowed to conflate them, but that is just technically wrong.
            >If works contribute to that attainment, one is not yet justified in the final sense.
            Synergy.

          • 5 months ago
            Dirk

            When I say justification I mean to be counted as righteous. Absolved of sin. What do you mean?
            I know you're advocating synergism, I'm just saying why I think it's incompatible with the text. I'm taking a conservative reading by concluding that synergism is not compatible with "not of works" or "not a result of works."
            You have to admit this is at least a plausible reading.

            Analogy, if you cut the lumber and I assemble a table, is the table a result of your efforts? Yes. Is it a result of my efforts? Yes.
            Is it true to say it's "not a result of my efforts?" No.

            >How do you know
            The rest of the Bible makes it abundantly clear that you cannot be saved without charity, even if you have faith. Charity requires good works, not merely wishing good things on others.

            >God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” (Romans 2:6)

            >You cannot be saved without charity(works)
            We agree but that doesn't answer the question. It also tells me you're not getting my position.
            How do you know that the standalone term "works" refers to the mosaic law exclusively and specifically? That's arbitrary and you're not giving me a citation.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >That's arbitrary and you're not giving me a citation.
            Paul's entire argument is directed at Christian convert Judaizers who want everyone to follow the Mosaic Law. He's not telling people to stop doing good works.

          • 5 months ago
            Dirk

            >he's not telling people to stop doing good works
            If you want to have a conversation at least pretend to have read my posts

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >How do you know
            The rest of the Bible makes it abundantly clear that you cannot be saved without charity, even if you have faith. Charity requires good works, not merely wishing good things on others.

            >God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” (Romans 2:6)

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            We are forgiven when we forgive others.

            Forgiveness is a work.

          • 5 months ago
            Dirk

            And?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah, faith is just one of the charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit. It's not the end all be all of Christian life, Paul even says in 1 Corinthians 12 that it's not given to all.

            Saying you are saved by faith alone is like saying you are saved by tongues alone, or prophecy alone, or healing alone. Really it's all of these gifts working together in the body of Christ.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Did you ignore the very first sentence?

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          He's talking about works of the Mosaic Law, not "good works". He even says in the next verse that we are created to do good works. The israelites typically boasted about the supposed advantages of keeping works of the Law.

          "For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

          • 5 months ago
            Dirk

            Why do you think "not of works" refers strictly to the mosaic law while "created in Christ Jesus to do good works" does not? That's arbitrary and exegetically unsound. Is there a commentary that makes that argument?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            what mental gymnastics do you use to say that going to church, praying, repenting, getting baptized, taking the lords supper like most protestants do, are in fact not works

          • 5 months ago
            Dirk

            Those are works. What did I say that gave you the impression that they're not? You're lost I think

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            "Works" refers to works of the Law. "Good works" always refers to acts done in charity, which are prerequisite for salvation.

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            >"Good works" always refers to acts done in charity, which are prerequisite for salvation.

            >Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
            >Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
            >That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

            For good measure: the well-known "Prot", Clement of Rome
            >Whosoever will candidly consider each particular, will recognise the greatness of the gifts which were given by him.
            >For from him have sprung the priests and all the Levites who minister at the altar of God.
            >From him also [was descended] our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh.
            >From him [arose] kings, princes, and rulers of the race of Judah.
            >Nor are his other tribes in small glory, inasmuch as God had promised, "Your seed shall be as the stars of heaven."
            >All these, therefore, were highly honoured, and made great, not for their own sake, or for their own works, or for the righteousness which they wrought, but through the operation of His will. >And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          This.
          The Blessed and Most Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church confirmed to share the same or similar view in the Joint Declaration on Justification, see point 19).

          >How do you reconcile your view of James 2 with Ephesians 2?
          Nobody ever disputes that salvation is through faith. We dispute that merely thinking in your head that Christ saves you is biblical belief.
          Nta

          >We dispute that merely thinking in your head that Christ saves you is biblical belief.
          Remember to add, and that soul does NO works of which would be fruit of the spirit, refuses baptism, refuses and virtues etc.
          And yes, that would be correct and the “call on Jesus and be saved, sinners prayer, saved once and forever” is a position rightly condemned by the council of Trent.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      The question is: when are you going to FRICK OFF??

  2. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    >You see that a person is justified
    What's the problem? It's about showing the fruits of your salvation to others.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      [...]

      [...]

      Not a whole lot of showing here.

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        Shown in the works, did you miss the second half of the sentence?

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          I missed where James said it's mere fruits.

          So you're saying the Bible promotes hedonism and laziness? After all if all I need to be saved is to believe, why bother doing anything else?

          No.
          Because it's good.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      It's talking about salvation.

      >What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? (James 2:14)

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        Save also means preserve in the Greek. You do good works because it reinforces your conviction in the faith.

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          Maybe when Christ "saves" you from sin he makes you "preserve" in sin then? Multiple salvations is a can of worm that's insane to open

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Are you saying people don't sin due to a sin nature after salvation mate

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            I'm saying it's moronic to say there exist multiple different salvations. The fact you misunderstood me proves my point. It's a completely incoherent confusing concept that has nothing to do with the NT.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            You completely misphrased yourself

            Maybe when Christ "saves" you from sin he makes you "preserve" in sin then? Multiple salvations is a can of worm that's insane to open

            . If the sentence is "saves" you from sin the equivalent would be "preserves" you from sin. You changed it to in to make a polemic. We believe that Jesus preserves us from sin.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            You missed the point and yet confirmed it. There are no multiple salvations. There is one saving from sin and death.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            You introduced multiple salvations into the conversation where it wasn't proposed.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Ah so we then agree that when the text says "saved" it is talking about eternal life?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            I'm saying saved in Greek has additional connotations of keeping in safety.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >>>You introduced multiple salvations into the conversation where it wasn't proposed.
            >saved in Greek has additional connotations
            The question is simple. Is the Gospel talking about being saved from sin and death or from other things too? And where would it mention that alternative salvation?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            It's talking about being saved from death and sin and security in conscience that you are saved from death and sin. The two meanings are present in English as well.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Can such faith save him?
            >a) Can such faith save him [from sin & death]
            >b) Can such faith [secure him a conscience that he he has been saved [from sin & death] ]
            One is much more likely than the other.

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            People struggle with this rhetorical question but it has a very easy answer
            >can faith save him?
            answer:
            >"I don't know if he has faith"

            If you arent a doer of good works, no one will know if faith can save you. Faith can't save you if you don't believe.
            The next statement is
            >I will SHOW my faith by my works
            what? show God? It's comparing two people...

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            The question was "Can SUCH faith save him?".
            It says nothing about showing or knowing. It says about a particular type of faith having any saving effect at all.

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            the word "such" does not occur in the text. Thus it is excluded from traditional translations.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            That's because you're biased:
            >And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preservemeunto his heavenly kingdom: to whombeglory for ever and ever. Amen.
            Here the same word is used to mean preserve.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Forgot the citation, 2 Timothy 4:18

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            It means (a) since the Kingdom is the eternal life. All instances of "saved" in theological context mean "saved from death". And equally so in James.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Begging the question.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            If believing that God saves me from death is begging the question, I am guilty.
            If you have textual evidence that salvation and saving in the text often doesn't mean that, I am interested. So far you showed me nothing of the sort.

            the word "such" does not occur in the text. Thus it is excluded from traditional translations.

            δύναται ἡ πίστις σῶσαι αὐτόν
            ἡ is a definite article meaning "such, this one"

            >b) Can such faith [secure him a conscience that he has been saved [from sin & death] ]
            You deliberately made this longer to make yourself seem more reasonable:
            >Can such faith preserve, safeguard him?

            Yes, I made it simpler for you to understand.
            Whereas you just replaced "save" with "preserve" which could just as well mean what I'm saying. Eternal life.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Whereas you just replaced "save" with "preserve" which could just as well mean what I'm saying.
            Yeah, God preserves his children unto eternal life as part of salvation. Acting on your faith leads to your maturation in understanding the victory of Christ over sin. Where's the problem?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Not as "part" of salvation. That is the salvation. When the Gospel says someone is "saved" it means they are saved from death. And James means the same thing when he asks if such lame faith can save someone. It can't.

            Works are necessary for belief...?
            Make that make sense.

            Jesus atoned for sin. The only way to "live" that belief is to pay it back (insufficiently) by following Christ.
            How does that mean that Christ atones for me but then has to check how well I (a finite creature) has paid back his infinite atonement?
            Did he atone or not? He revokes his atonement based on your works which he saved you from?
            Huh?
            Is he the "propitiation for sin" or not?

            >Works are necessary for belief...?
            Yes.
            >Make that make sense
            Ok, see: literally every character in the Bible
            They all did works as part of their belief

            >The only way to "live" that belief is to pay it back (insufficiently) by following Christ.
            Yes.
            >has to check how well.... paid back
            No, you're not paying anything back. You're accepting it into your life. If you don't live it, it's not in your life.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Not as "part" of salvation.
            Yes as part of salvation

            >When the Gospel says someone is "saved" it means they are saved from death.
            By faith alone

            >And James means the same thing when he asks if such lame faith can save someone. It can't.
            Good thing saving faith isn't lame

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >saving faith isn't lame
            Not if it has works.

            >nooo eternal life is just part of it
            depart

            [...]
            Basically; it's not me who is confused over terms such as
            >Propitiation
            >Ransom
            >Free gift
            >Apart from works
            >not by works of righteousness which we have done
            >If by grace, then it is no more of works
            >if by works, then it is no more grace
            >To him that worketh not, but believeth
            etc.
            actually mean*

            >>it's not me who is confused over terms such as
            >If by grace, then it is no more of works
            >if by works, then it is no more grace
            Yes it is, anon. It is a false dichotomy that all denominations before you managed to transcend. You're a slave to word games that Apostles didn't play lol.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Not if it has works
            Faith precedes works

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >If believing that God saves me from death is begging the question, I am guilty.
            You believe that works saves you from death

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Nope. I believe Christ saves. And to accept him into my life I have to live him.
            You will not understand this because the moment you hear 'works' without the asterisk of 'fruit', you default into thinking "they think works save".

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >And to accept him into my life I have to live him.
            Your works will never be enough

            >You will not understand this because the moment you hear 'works' without the asterisk of 'fruit', you default into thinking "they think works save".
            That is what you believe. Salvation = works

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            And your faith will never be enough, either, because it's dead without works.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Faith is enough. Meanwhile this is what Jesus says about works:
            >Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!
            Matthew 7:22-23

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. (Revelation 20:13)

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            God rewards the saints in accordance with what they've done anon.

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            >b) Can such faith [secure him a conscience that he has been saved [from sin & death] ]
            You deliberately made this longer to make yourself seem more reasonable:
            >Can such faith preserve, safeguard him?

            If someone says "I got a lawnmower delivered, I can't wait to mow my lawn"
            and you never see them with their lawnmower; someone asks "CAN he mow his lawn??"
            The most logical answer is
            >"I don't know if he got the lawnmower"
            not
            >"NO, actually, he CANT mow his lawn"
            because this implies you can see into his house(soul) and know 100% whether or not he just put the lawnmower somewhere in storage, doing nothing with it.
            When the time comes to mow the lawn, he may or may not have the lawnmower.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Again, not about knowing or recognizing. It's about whether that faith can have that effect.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >b) Can such faith [secure him a conscience that he has been saved [from sin & death] ]
            You deliberately made this longer to make yourself seem more reasonable:
            >Can such faith preserve, safeguard him?

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        It's talking about saved from the Day of the Lord. In Rahab's case, the Day of the Lord was when the Israelites led by Joshua came to Jericho.
        >Joshua 6:24-25 KJVAAE
        >And they burnt the city with fire, and all that was therein: only the silver, and the gold, and the vessels of brass and of iron, they put into the treasury of the house of the Lord. And Joshua saved Rahab the harlot alive, and her father's household, and all that she had; and she dwelleth in Israel even unto this day; because she hid the messengers, which Joshua sent to spy out Jericho.

        The Day of the Lord is something that has happened over and over, and will continue to happen.

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          Lmao what?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            "Lmao" that you teach a works salvation. That will work out real well for you.

  3. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    So, according to christcucks who's more deserving of salvation
    - a man of faith who does nothing
    - a nonbeliever who acts like a moral and righteous hero

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      A man of faith who does nothing.
      t. not a moronic prottie but still, Christ saves

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        So you're saying the Bible promotes hedonism and laziness? After all if all I need to be saved is to believe, why bother doing anything else?

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          >if all I need to be saved is to believe, why bother doing anything else?
          Because if you believed you would do what Jesus said

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            But the claim that Protestants make is that salvation comes from faith alone. That a last minute repentance is all you need. Expedient for getting fresh converts, but it doesn't actually spread Jesus's message. You just try to make people less scared they'll go to Hell.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      God is more than what's written in a book, but yes the standard response from Christians is this nonsense

      A man of faith who does nothing.
      t. not a moronic prottie but still, Christ saves

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      Faith necessitates struggling for Christ.

    • 5 months ago
      Dirk

      Nobody deserves salvation. That's like the whole point.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      no one is a moral and righteous hero
      atheists go on and on about how we're just stupid monkeys with no soul but they're very quick to imagine themselves as beings capable of selfless altruism.
      You have no dog in the race.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      neither of them.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      the two cannot be separated. a man who is genuinely saved would act in such a way that his works would be righteous and moral.

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        >So, according to christcucks who's more deserving of salvation
        >- a man of faith who does nothing
        >- a nonbeliever who acts like a moral and righteous hero
        The second scenario. Jesus was asked how one can know that you know him. Jesus said you will keep my commandments and that's how you will know that you know him. So if you live righteous life then you know Jesus whether you know him by name or not.

        This, believing with your "soul", and letting that reflect in your actions is better than believing in God with lip service.

        Also, this makes sense and explains why God re-wrote his rules to reach a larger audience

        >God admits it's possible for israelites to obey the Torah in the OT
        >God all of a sudden in the NT states that it's impossible to keep the Torah

        Either God directly contradicted himself or God always knew israelites would strive to keep the Torah, and that gentiles wouldn't. Therefore God created a new theology where gentiles were not obligated to obey the Torah as long as they believed in Christ. Then from that belief they could attempt to obey the law, thus being justified by works.

        Catholic thought is the middle ground between obeying the Torah (Judaism), and only believing in Christ (Protestantism).

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          Yep. A lot of Christians miss the point of this important concept.

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        [...]
        This, believing with your "soul", and letting that reflect in your actions is better than believing in God with lip service.

        Also, this makes sense and explains why God re-wrote his rules to reach a larger audience [...]

        >the two cannot be separated. a man who is genuinely saved would act in such a way that his works would be righteous and moral.
        That is a very concise way to describe your error. There are many examples of the opposite all throughout the Bible. Peter taught circumcision, James wouldn't eat with Gentiles in the presence of others, Mark argued with Paul, Demas forsook Paul, etc. And that's just the New Testsment. Saul threw a spear at David, David killed Urijah, Solomon went after false gods, etc.

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          Uriah*

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          David repented of his sin. If he never had faith he would have never repented, and thus began to act righteously. Once he repented he didn't fall into sin again, he let works justify his new found faith. If he was a "faith alone" guy he would've just kept sinning, because worshiping the God of Israel was "enough". If you love God you will obey him, even if you frick up, you will repent and do better. There's such thing as being saved only by faith, and then sinning forever, because being lazy is easier.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            So King Saul is in hell? Let's hear it.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            This is the official cathodox position (obviously; because thhey say Samuel was in Hell too, when he said "you will be with me" (but it's actually a different compartment of Hell...))

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            I actually believe the harrowing of hell, so I can see that until the Lord Jesus came. But a Catholic can't bring themselves to say "No, he's not in hell right now."

            Repentance is not undoing your actions, it's admitting you fricked up, feeling evil in your soul and asking God to forgive and purify you.

            [...]
            Why are you asking me something only God knows?

            Because God tells us. You don't hear because you're not of God.
            >Romans 11:29 KJVAAE
            >For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            I don't believe that any believers went to a Hell-Paradise; BUT I can understand the position so long as you're saying that they were saved by grace through faith etc. etc.
            Which would in fact be tenable with Saul/Samuel being in "the same place" rather than two separate compartments.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >John 6:58 KJVAAE
            >This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
            >your fathers did eat manna, and are dead

            I really enjoyed Gospel of Nicodemus.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            It doesn't say without repentance.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            You've lost
            ἀμεταμέλητος

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            So you're saying David should have never repented of his sin? He would have been saved either way, because he believed in the God of Israel?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Do you understand the concept of rewards?
            >Romans 4:4 KJVAAE
            >Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

            >Matthew 6:20 KJVAAE
            >but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            No, I don't believe you will have more israelite gold in heaven for living a better life. Those are metaphors. Heaven is not a material place. Answer the question, would David have been saved if he never repented?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >No, I don't believe you will have more israelite gold in heaven for living a better life.
            You have lost your mind, Heretic. (I see the redundancy)

            Mark 10:31 KJVAAE
            But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Answer the question: would David have been saved if he never repented?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            You know I believe in Faith Alone. Do you think you have some profound point, or are you just being annoying? David was saved from the Lake of Fire the moment he had Faith as a little child.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Wrong. David was only forgiven, because he admitted his sin and repented. Had he never done that he never would have been saved. You misinterpreted scripture, because you are not of God.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Honestly, you have to be israelites LARPing. How can anyone read "I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee" and call God a liar unless their father was the devil?

          • 5 months ago
            OP

            God never leaving you doesn't rule out the possibility of you rejecting God.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >2 Timothy 2:13 KJVAAE
            >if we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

          • 5 months ago
            OP

            So you think it's impossible to reject God? Is that what you're saying?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Can a believer reject God?
            Have you read the Bible?

            Matthew 26:74 KJVAAE
            Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the wiener crew.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            If it's possible to reject God after believing, then we need good works.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            We don't need good works to go to Heaven.
            >John 3:16 KJVAAE
            >For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            If you believe in him you truly then he will change your life, and you will have the strength not to fall into sin. If you continue to sin without making any effort to stop, because you "believed" then you never really believed.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Luke 22:32 KJVAAE
            >but I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

            It's possible for your faith to fail. It's not possible for the LORD to be unfaithful.
            >2 Timothy 2:13 KJVAAE
            >if we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >It's possible for your faith to fail
            Then faith alone is not enough. If faith can fail, then obviously you must live in faith for it not to fail.

            >It's not possible for the LORD to be unfaithful.

            The LORD was ready to send David to hell if David's own faith didn't lead him to repent.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >The LORD was ready to send David to Hell
            Uhh, citation needed

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Wrong. David was only forgiven, because he admitted his sin and repented. Had he never done that he never would have been saved. You misinterpreted scripture, because you are not of God.

            >I have sinned against the Lord
            This is repentance.

            >The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die.
            This is God forgiving David of his sin, and not letting him die. Therefore, God saved David because he repented.

            What was the alternative if David did not repent? Death.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            There are many sins I’ve quit through the aid of of the Holy Ghost
            I wouldn’t dare claim that I* could have the strength not to “fall into sin”
            What sin? How much sin? This is why you* are the self-righteous; “holier than thou”

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Already answered, learn to read

            >You will* be rewarded for good. You will* be punished for sin.
            *in this life only according to you, not a big deal when Heaven is eternal

            >You can sin without wanting to; and not do good in spite of wanting to.
            It's not about being perfect, and never messing up, it's about refusing to live in sin BECAUSE you had faith. If you accept living in sin on purpose, without making any effort to improve you never had true faith in the first place.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >define “living in sin”
            >”no”

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Living in sin is what you do when you have "faith alone", and attempting to fight an uphill battle to not live in sin is what happens when your faith is justified by works. That's the difference. No one ever claimed that you can literally avoid all sin. It's only about making the effort since you were renewed by Christ.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            How much effort?
            Can you be saved if you’re a bureaucrat who doesn’t fast or give tithes?
            Can you be saved if you’re a Pharisee hiding your faith out of fear?
            Can you be saved if all your works are bad? If all you’ve built upon the foundation which is Christ is wood, hay, and stubble?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >How much effort?
            It doesn't matter. It's the effort that counts 🙂

            Faith alone, and no effort is fake faith. Faith with effort (works) is real faith, because if you believe you will want to be good for goodness sake.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >I have sinned against the Lord
            This is repentance.

            >The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die.
            This is God forgiving David of his sin, and not letting him die. Therefore, God saved David because he repented.

            What was the alternative if David did not repent? Death.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yes, death. Not damnation. Not the Lake of Fire. Moses died too.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Stop twisting around scripture. Death is hell Biblically. Death is damnation. Eternal life is salvation in Heaven.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >John 6:58 KJVAAE
            >This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

            >Mark 12:26 KJVAAE
            >And as touching the dead, that they rise; have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Revelation 1:18
            I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

            Jesus went to hell, and was dead. Hell = death. Hell for anyone other than Christ who went there to atone for sins, is the place of the damned.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            You're Catholic and you don't even believe the harrowing of hell? This is why I say you must be a israelite LARPing.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous
          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >You're Catholic
            Nope, I just agree with faith justified by works. I don't believe the prophets were in hell before Christ. Hell is the place of damnation, it is death according to scripture. You're ignoring scripture, and claiming death isn't hell.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Luke 16:23 KJVAAE
            >and in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

            Did this take place with Abraham, in Heaven, talking to the rich man, in hell?

            >John 3:13 KJVAAE
            >And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yes.
            Have you dropped all pretense of believing in miracles?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Have you decided to drop the pretense of believing Scripture?
            >John 3:13 KJVAAE
            >And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

            >It's possible for your faith to fail
            Then faith alone is not enough. If faith can fail, then obviously you must live in faith for it not to fail.

            >It's not possible for the LORD to be unfaithful.

            The LORD was ready to send David to hell if David's own faith didn't lead him to repent.

            Faith Alone, even a mustard seed = Sealed by the Holy Ghost unto the Day of Redemption. Read the Bible instead of promoting a false gospel on basket weaving forums.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Ascension is a special miracle
            If you’re claiming that that verse means that no one went to heaven in the OT then Enoch and Elijah may have a slight objection

            But…
            Praise God that you adhere to the Gospel

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Enoch "was not".
            Elijah was taken into heaven (the sky) by a whirlwind. Do you understand that whirlwinds are not cosmic events?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Elijah was taken into heaven (the sky)

            He was taken to heaven, don't make yourself look even more dumb by pretending that he was literally sucked into a Tornado. It's called a metaphor.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Only a israelite would call God a liar. Pic rel.
            >John 3:13 KJVAAE
            >And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Cool it with the antisemitism.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            You literally just don't understand what Jesus is saying.

            Enoch literally didn't die, that's what it says in the letter of the Hebrews.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            We're not talking about whether or not he died. I'm asking you for a verse that says he ascended to heaven.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            If he didn't die, where could he be? Just floating around, being thousands of years old?

            Look, you have to take the context of Jesus' words into account. He's quoting Proverbs 30.

            4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, and descended? who hath held the wind in his hands? who hath bound up the waters together as in a garment? who hath raised up all the borders of the earth? what is his name, and what is the name of his son, if thou knowest?

            >who has ascended AND descended

            Jesus is differentiating between those who can only teach worldly things, and himself who teaches of heavenly affairs.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >John 3:13 KJVAAE
            >And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            You're a moron or a troll.

            I've already explained which verse of scripture Jesus quotes to you, and why. But you aren't interested in learning more.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            You are seething at the Word of God and teach a works-based salvation.
            >John 3:16 KJVAAE
            >For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Do you need to forgive others to be forgiven or not?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Ephesians 4:30 KJVAAE
            >And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Matthew 6

            14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

            15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

            Answer me, now.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Philippians 1:6 KJVAAE
            >being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            You are speechless.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            I am already forgiven later. If I don't forgive my brother, I will be punished now. Simple as.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Great explanation.

            >John 3:13 KJVAAE
            >And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

            You were BTFO, and caught misinterpreting the words of Christ.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            And you denying them.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            I accepted the actual context of those words, and the FACT that the prophets were alive. You deny the truth.

            Are you admitting you don't? Then your "theory" has no more authority than mine. However my "theory" has more truth to it, because it makes more sense according to the rest of scripture. Therefore it is correct. Abraham's Bosom is another way of saying Heaven, where all of the prophets were. Hell is death. The prophets were alive.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            It's over.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            https://www.gotquestions.org/John-3-13.html

            Other Christians don't view the verse as literally as you do, because the NT can't contradict the OT.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Oy vey

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Enoch "was not".
            Yes he was. Sirach 44:16, and Hebrews 11:5. Boom.
            >Elijah was taken into heaven (the sky) by a whirlwind. Do you understand that whirlwinds are not cosmic events?
            1 Maccabees 2:58. Boom.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Sirach 44:16 KJVAAE [APOCRYPHA]
            >Enoch pleased the Lord, and was translated, being an example of repentance to all generations.
            >Hebrews 11:5 KJVAAE
            >By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

            No heaven.

            >1 Maccabees 2:58 KJVAAE [APOCRYPHA]
            >Elijah for being zealous and fervent for the law was taken up into heaven.

            The sky.

            >John 3:13 KJVAAE
            >And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >No heaven.
            What the hell do you think Heb. 11:5 "SO THAT HE SHOULD NOT SEE DEATH" means?
            >The sky.
            So Elijah's reward for his zeal is to be taken up into the stratosphere, where he'll likely freeze to death? Are you fricking high?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Sounds like you're having a meltdown over the words of the Living God.
            >John 3:13 KJVAAE
            >And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            No, actually, it seems like you are. Neither Enoch or Elijah ascended to heaven. They were translated/taken up.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Translated means taken up to heaven? Chapter and verse.
            >2 Kings 6:17 KJVAAE
            >And Elisha prayed, and said, Lord, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the Lord opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            I said they didn't "ascend" into Heaven, as if by their own merits, they were taken up. So there's no contradiction. Prove to me that "heaven" in Sirach means "sky." I'm not going to suffer your dumb presupposition without justification.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            It doesn't say Heaven in Sirach. Now you're confused. When are you going to back up your doctrine with Scripture?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Okay, 2 Kings and 1 Maccabees. Now answer the damn question. You have to prove that "heaven" in those verses mean "sky." I'm taking the Bible at face value.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Genesis 1:8 KJVAAE
            >And God called the firmament heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

            >John 3:13 KJVAAE
            >And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Psalm 11:4 also uses the same word. Are you telling me God's throne is in the atmosphere? Come up with something better, protestant scum.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Protestant Scum
            And yet here you are arguing against the harrowing of hell.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            I'm not your boogeyman, heretic. I'm a different guy. Now answer the objection.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Where do you think they were taken to? Outer space?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Once again:
            >2 Kings 6:17 KJVAAE
            >And Elisha prayed, and said, Lord, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the Lord opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >look ma, I done posted it again

            what a dumb homosexual

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
            John 3:13
            The matter is settled.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Did this take place with Abraham, in Heaven, talking to the rich man, in hell?
            Yes, Abraham's bosom is Lazarus leaning on Abraham's chest in heaven. It is not a location in the underworld.

            >And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

            Enoch and Elijah ascended to heaven.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Yes, Abraham's bosom is Lazarus leaning on Abraham's chest in heaven. It is not a location in the underworld.
            Chapter and verse.
            >Enoch and Elijah ascended to heaven.
            Chapter and verse.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Chapter and verse
            Chapter and verse that says Abraham's Bosom is a location in the underworld. The "chasm" between Lazarus and the rich man is the chasm between heaven and hell. They're not literally right next to each other in the underworld.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Are you admitting that you don't have a chapter and verse?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Are you admitting you don't? Then your "theory" has no more authority than mine. However my "theory" has more truth to it, because it makes more sense according to the rest of scripture. Therefore it is correct. Abraham's Bosom is another way of saying Heaven, where all of the prophets were. Hell is death. The prophets were alive.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Also, I'm aware this Pastor is a "faith alone" guy, but at least he's right about this unlike other Christians.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            I asked you for a chapter and verse. You failed to provide. Just let that sink in. Here's mine:

            >Luke 16:23-24 KJVAAE
            >and in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Already addressed, you are literally interpreting this like you literally interpreted Elijah being sucked into a Tornado because you have no argument. Elijah went to Heaven, the prophets were ALIVE in Heaven, and Hell is death

            Revelation 1:18
            I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

            Jesus went to hell, and was dead. Hell = death. Hell for anyone other than Christ who went there to atone for sins, is the place of the damned.

            Oy vey

            Deflection, address the point made.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Only a israelite would call God a liar. It's worth repeating.
            >John 3:13 KJVAAE
            >And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Broken record, address this and this

            >The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. (Revelation 20:13)

            Revelation 1:18
            I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

            Jesus went to hell, and was dead. Hell = death. Hell for anyone other than Christ who went there to atone for sins, is the place of the damned.

            HELL is DEATH. HEAVEN is LIFE. The prophets are ALIVE during the time of Jesus.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Is God also a "broken record" when He says salvation is by Faith Alone and you still don't hear Him?

            >Mark 12:26 KJVAAE
            >And as touching the dead, that they rise; have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

            >John 6:58 KJVAAE
            >This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Is God also a "broken record" when He says salvation is by Faith Alone and you still don't hear Him?
            Name one verse in the bible where the exact words "by faith alone" is used verbatim, you liar.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Romans 4:10 KJVAAE
            >How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Romans 4:10
            Okay, and?

            >James 2:21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?

            He still was only considered righteous AFTER he completed his work. No issue there.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Romans 10:3 KJVAAE
            >For they, being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            What point are you trying to make here? Abraham WAS submitting to the righteousness of God, he literally followed God's command faithfully to the end. Stop posting verses and fricking exegete them, dumbass. The Bible is dangerous in the hands of heretics like you.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Thou art the man.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            So God admitted that the prophets were LIVING. Not DEAD.

            Broken record, address this and this [...]
            [...]

            HELL is DEATH. HEAVEN is LIFE. The prophets are ALIVE during the time of Jesus.

            Therefore DEATH = HELL. HEAVEN = LIFE.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >1 Corinthians 15:35-36 KJVAAE
            >But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            This is about resurrection in the new world, NOT being alive in Heaven. Two entirely separate events.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Matthew 27:52-53 KJVAAE
            >and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            It's over.

            Never addressed hell being death, never addressed faith alone not being enough on the day of the Lord.

            >The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. (Revelation 20:13)

            Do you just not like the Revelation?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Deuteronomy 31:8 KJVAAE
            >And the Lord, he it is that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed.

            >Hebrews 13:5 KJVAAE
            >Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            non answer

            >Philippians 1:6 KJVAAE
            >being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

            non answer

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Do you recommend any preachers to listen to?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yes

            Are you admitting you don't? Then your "theory" has no more authority than mine. However my "theory" has more truth to it, because it makes more sense according to the rest of scripture. Therefore it is correct. Abraham's Bosom is another way of saying Heaven, where all of the prophets were. Hell is death. The prophets were alive.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            No thanks, I meant a competent preacher.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Pastor Anderson kicked Donnie Romero out of his own church due to the cocaine and hookers.
            "Hiding it"? wuh huh???

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Who ordained Benjamin Donnie Romero?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Pastor Anderson.
            That's why Pastor Anderson disbarred him.

            Are you saying that Pastor Anderson's comment means that he didn't rectify the situation?
            Should he have moved Donnie to a different church instead and everyone could forget?
            He never denied ordaining him.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >"None of these pastors "came" from me in any form."
            I can think of one form.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            You ask to be ordained; that's how it works for Independent Baptists.
            Pastor Anderson foolishly or not, ordained him.

            It's not like a denominational church where they're handpicked.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Steven Anderson is a wicked false teacher that started a cult. Just a slimy guy

            New IFB False Gospel Exposed by Norm Diamante:

            Almost 600 Thumbs Up, and around 50 Thumbs Down between these two videos.

            More here: https://youtube.com/@NIFBexposed/

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Norm, do you really have to shill on Oyish?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous
          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            More here: https://youtube.com/@NIFBexposed/

            Well he is a "faith alone" guy so I expect this kind of behavior from him. He is right about Abraham's Bosom being Heaven though. You can be right about one thing, and be wrong about everything else.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Just a chapter and verse is fine.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Hell = Death. Heaven = Life

            [...]
            Never addressed hell being death, never addressed faith alone not being enough on the day of the Lord. [...]

            Do you just not like the Revelation?

            There is no third place in the underworld. Jesus went to hell and was dead as a vicarious sacrifice to atone for humanity. He did not go to a third place. He later went to Heaven (Abraham's Bosom).

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Save your meltdown. Chapter and verse on Abraham's Bosom.
            >John 3:13 KJVAAE
            >And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Not him, but Abraham's Bosom talked about in the rich man poor man story with Lazarus. Also the entire original church understood this place.

            >But these men are in all points inconsistent with themselves, when they decide that all souls do not enter into the intermediate place, but those of the righteous only. Irenaeus (A.D. 180) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg. 403

            >The Lord has taught with very great fullness, that souls not only continue to exist, not by passing from body to body, but that they preserve the same form [in their separate state] as the body had to which they were adapted… in that narrative which is recorded respecting the rich man and that Lazarus who found repose in the bosom of Abraham. By these things, then, it is plainly declared that souls continue to exist that they do not pass from body to body, that they possess the form of a man, so that they may be recognized, and retain the memory of things in this world; moreover, that the gift of prophecy was possessed by Abraham, and that each class [of souls] receives a habitation such as it has deserved, even before the judgment. Irenaeus (A.D. 180) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg. 411

            The citations are everywhere. Too numerous to post in one post.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Save your meltdown. Chapter and verse on Abraham's Bosom.
            >John 3:13 KJVAAE
            >And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

            >Christ declared that ignorance was not on His side, but on theirs, who thought that He was not the Christ, but fancied they would put Him to death, and that He, like some common mortal, would remain in Hades. Justin Martyr (A.D. 160) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.248

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            God exists outside of time.
            >John 6:58 KJVAAE
            >This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
            Are you saying the people who ate manna lost their salvation?

            Save your meltdown. Chapter and verse on Abraham's Bosom.
            >John 3:13 KJVAAE
            >And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

            >For if you have fallen in with some who are called Christians, but who do not admit this [truth], and venture to blaspheme the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; who say there is no resurrection of the dead, and that their souls, when they die, are taken to heaven; do not imagine that they are Christians. Justin Martyr (A.D. 160) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.239

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            [...]
            [...]
            >For if you have fallen in with some who are called Christians, but who do not admit this [truth], and venture to blaspheme the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; who say there is no resurrection of the dead, and that their souls, when they die, are taken to heaven; do not imagine that they are Christians. Justin Martyr (A.D. 160) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.239

            Thank you, anon. I believe in the harrowing of hell. It has helped me unlearn a lot of nonsense. And I am very grateful for those quotes by St. Justin.

            Of course not.
            But if you really can't see it there's nothing I can do.
            People who died in Christ (such as Abraham) went straight to Heaven. Their SPIRIT. That is; no bodily ascension like Christ.

            Chapter and verse.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Absolutely.
            This is a very handy website sorted by topic for things like this.
            earlychristiandictionary.com

            I'd also highly recommend a scroll publishing on YouTube. Contract lawyer going through the ante nicene writings. It's interesting when you arm yourself with their writings how straightforward the Bible actually is. When you read it again you realize just how much preconceived ideas made things seem more complicated than they actually are.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            I feel the same. Thank you I will check him out.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Oh I know of Bercot. I knew that name sounded familiar. He's wrong on the Septuagint. The only verifiable Septuagint we have exists in the writings of the Saints who claimed they had the original.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            That's fair. His analysis of the ante Nicene writing is sounds tho. Especially since them writings are so straight forward.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            I will still check him out.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Grateful for these St. Irenaeus quotes too.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Their treasures

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Chapter and verse that Jesus went to an Abraham's Bosom place in the underworld and not hell.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Since you can't give me chapter and verse, I will, once again, give you:
            >Luke 16:23-24 KJVAAE
            >and in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

            Norm, do you really have to shill on Oyish?

            Are you guys insane? Pic rel.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            That Jesus went to hell? Here

            [...]
            Never addressed hell being death, never addressed faith alone not being enough on the day of the Lord. [...]

            Do you just not like the Revelation?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Chapter and verse that Jesus went to an Abraham's Bosom place in the underworld and not hell
            The problem is modern English translations, so a better citation would be those who spoke the same tongue and knew the apostles personally. They can translate for you.

            >The Lord preached the Gospel to those in Hades. … Do not [the Scriptures] show that the Lord preached the Gospel to those who perished in the flood, or rather had been chained, as to those kept in ward and guard? And it has been shown also … that the apostles, following the Lord, preached the Gospel to those in Hades. … If, then, the Lord descended to Hades for no other reason but to preach the Gospel (as He did descend), it was either to preach the Gospel to all, or else to the Hebrews only. If, accordingly, He preached to all, then all who believe will be saved on making their profession there – even though they may be Gentiles. For God’s punishments are saving and disciplinary, leading to conversion. He desires the repentance, rather than the death, of a sinner. This is especially so since souls, although darkened by passions, when released from their bodies, are able to perceive more clearly. For they are no longer obstructed by the paltry flesh. … Did not the same dispensation obtain in Hades? For even there, all the souls, on hearing the proclamation, could either exhibit repentance, or confess that their punishment was just, because they did not believe. And it was not arbitrary that they could obtain either salvation or punishment. For those who had departed before the coming of the Lord had not had the gospel preached to them. So they had been given no opportunity to either believe or not believe. Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 195) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.2 pg.490,491

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            It doesn't matter if it's called Hell or Hades. It's the place of death, and it's not Abraham's Bosom.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Hades is where you go when you die. And as illustrated and commonly known in the original church, there are horrible places and a paradise there. The paradise was referred to as Abraham's Bosom. This is where Jesus took the thief on the cross.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Jesus has the keys to hell and death therefore he went to hell. Nowhere does it state Jesus went to Abraham's Bosom.

            There aren't two heavens. There's heaven and hell.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Nowhere does it state Jesus went to Abraham's Bosom.
            What are you talking about. He told thief they were going to Paradise together. And then they went to Hades which is translated to hell. Why would Paradise be in hell, the way that you know the word? They went to Hades and the Paradise there. Literally everybody at the time would have understood Jesus's declaration of taking him to Paradise to mean he was going to Abraham's bosom. This was a well-known place during the original church time.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Jesus went to hell first, and then went to paradise. He says I will see you in paradise "tonight", because God and heaven (as well as hell) exists outside of time.

            >B-but find me the scripture
            Find me the scripture that Jesus did NOT go to hell where death is, you can't. He went to the residence of death, hell or hades.

            [...]
            Never addressed hell being death, never addressed faith alone not being enough on the day of the Lord. [...]

            Do you just not like the Revelation?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Steven Anderson is wrong on when Abraham even got saved, but you are willing to die on his hill of Abraham's bosom. It's so sick and twisted.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous
          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            "If they don't get salvation right, nothing else matters". Steven Anderson
            "I believe this verse (Genesis 12:8, Bethel) is when Abraham got saved." - Steven Anderson

            >"The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Haran" - Saint Stephen, the Martyr, Acts 7

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            I agree with the dude on various things, like his "faith alone" argument, but he makes a solid argument here.

            Are you admitting you don't? Then your "theory" has no more authority than mine. However my "theory" has more truth to it, because it makes more sense according to the rest of scripture. Therefore it is correct. Abraham's Bosom is another way of saying Heaven, where all of the prophets were. Hell is death. The prophets were alive.

            That's all I'm arguing, stop deflecting. Jesus went to hell, and conquered death. He did not go to a second heaven in the underworld.

            Jesus has the keys to hell and death therefore he went to hell. Nowhere does it state Jesus went to Abraham's Bosom.

            There aren't two heavens. There's heaven and hell.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            He's not faith alone. As illustrated by his inability to explain the mechanism by which Abraham was saved. Or the mechanism Paul was saved. Or the mechanism and verse Rahab was saved. He even teaches a Judeo-Christian interpretation of Romans 11.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            No idea what this guy's deal is.
            Abraham was "alive" when Jesus walked the earth.
            So his bosom was in Heaven.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            He prescribes to the "Abraham's Bosom" is not heaven or hell theory. It's moronic, but idiots believe in it.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            God exists outside of time.
            >John 6:58 KJVAAE
            >This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
            Are you saying the people who ate manna lost their salvation?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Of course not.
            But if you really can't see it there's nothing I can do.
            People who died in Christ (such as Abraham) went straight to Heaven. Their SPIRIT. That is; no bodily ascension like Christ.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >God exists outside of time.
            Yes, in Heaven.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            More here: https://youtube.com/@NIFBexposed/

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Lmao. How many times are you going to post that picture?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            I assumed you were intelligent enough to be asking a rhetorical question, albeit a foolish one. Guess not

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            Why is the concept of doing good for goodness sake so foreign to you?
            To answer you fully; every true believer DOES become indwelt with the Holy Ghost, and receives the "mind of Christ" but this New Man (as the Bible puts it) is at enmity with the old fleshly man of sin
            A believer will have his heart grieved at his own sin; but this doesn't equate to doing good works.
            Once you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and his atonement, you are sealed with the Holy Ghost and shall be saved. It's not that this isn't meant to change someone, it's that YES, you can do ZERO works and still be saved because it was ALL JESUS and ZERO YOU.
            And the believer is meant to desire goodness for goodness' sake and not out of some fear of going to Hell.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >And the believer is meant to desire goodness for goodness' sake
            If you desire goodness you will do it. Otherwise you were paying lip service to Christ.

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            Did you forget that you live in a body of sin and death?
            >For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
            >Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
            >I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
            >For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
            >But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
            >O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
            >I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

            Only Jesus Christ as perfect God-Man could overcome the flesh perfectly.
            HIS righteousness is imputed in those that believe; their "sins are covered"

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Only Jesus Christ as perfect God-Man could overcome the flesh perfectly.
            That's why you start with faith in him, and then when you are cleansed you start living like him and by his teachings. How do you not understand, God already stated following his law is achievable, but the law is not enough to save. That's why the Pharisees were religious hypocrites who thought being outwardly righteous was enough. Being saved in Christ means being inwardly righteous, and then living a renewed life free from sin. If you keep sinning, and not caring that's just a perversion of the point Paul was trying to get across.

            Romans 3:8

            "Why not say, as some slanderously claim that we say, “Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!"

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            Are you so dense that you think that I'm saying
            "let us do evil"?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            That is the logical conclusion of "faith alone", you just don't like it when your "faith alone" is pushed that far.

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            >That is the logical conclusion of "faith alone"
            How?
            If I believe that sin is worthy of Hell and only Christ's atonement is what saves me; why would I then WANT* to sin?
            I have both the Old Man and New Man inside of me, The New Man wants to do good. Literally; my immaterial spirit has been cleansed.
            Goodness for goodness' sake.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >If I believe that sin is worthy of Hell and only Christ's atonement is what saves me; why would I then WANT* to sin?
            That's not "faith alone". That's faith justified by works, like wanting to "do good for goodness sake". Faith alone means NOT ever doing anything good, and expecting to enter heaven because you believed in Christ only.

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            You can sin without wanting to; and not do good in spite of wanting to.
            How have you missed the point of salvation and the resurrection THIS badly?
            You see; believers WILL be rewarded for things done "in the body" at the resurrection (when you get your new* body back).
            But they'll never go to Hell.
            You will* be rewarded for good. You will* be punished for sin.
            But you have escaped Hell and Death through Christ's Atonement.

            >For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
            >Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
            >Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
            >If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
            >If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >You will* be rewarded for good. You will* be punished for sin.
            *in this life only according to you, not a big deal when Heaven is eternal

            >You can sin without wanting to; and not do good in spite of wanting to.
            It's not about being perfect, and never messing up, it's about refusing to live in sin BECAUSE you had faith. If you accept living in sin on purpose, without making any effort to improve you never had true faith in the first place.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >If you accept living in sin on purpose, without making any effort to improve you never had true faith in the first place.
            >if you don't have good works you never had true faith in the first place
            Just admit you don't actually believe in faith alone.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            I don't believe in faith alone. I believe in faith justified by works.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            How much sin is “living in sin” you dunce?
            Jesus’ standards are very very high. I think much higher than you’d like to believe

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Hypocrisy but we have no free will to not do sin like Jesus can. I tried to not lie and went into the wilderness, but it seems that power is locked to Jesus who stole it first. It belongs to everyone.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            I think not lying is not too difficult to achieve. Though people will look at you like a deer in headlights sometimes for not going about deception in ways they see as completely innocuous. But Jesus was silent when Pilot asked him a question. You can always just be silent.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yes you can always be silent and true to the world. The world is truly silent and our words is a lie since we aren't Jesus. But I remember him crying out in pain his name, what was it again? YOW

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Give a man a choice if he wants to exist and he will tell you to his face, "No." I believe Fredrick Nietzsche would tell us something of the overman. Man has surpassed the living God his creator for reasons to live. Man does not desire eternal life as it is not a natural desire in his habitat. Only God desires to live forever, because his existence is unnatural. That is, before the beginning which was the end.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            We're created in God's image. God is consciousness therefore we desire to be eternally conscious.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Hypocrisy but we have no free will to not do sin like Jesus can.
            We don't have free will? What? Also, God states it's possible to obey his commands.

            >God admits it's possible for israelites to obey the Torah in the OT
            >God all of a sudden in the NT states that it's impossible to keep the Torah

            Either God directly contradicted himself or God always knew israelites would strive to keep the Torah, and that gentiles wouldn't. Therefore God created a new theology where gentiles were not obligated to obey the Torah as long as they believed in Christ. Then from that belief they could attempt to obey the law, thus being justified by works.

            Catholic thought is the middle ground between obeying the Torah (Judaism), and only believing in Christ (Protestantism).

            Especially the commandments interpreted by Christ, meaning the real spiritual law (loving God, not harming others).

            Jesus summed up the Torah as loving God, and loving your neighbour as yourself. God still wants you to keep the law (as interpreted by Christ) if you have faith in him. Useless legalism like circumcision and dietary restrictions are not required though.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            How did he repent of killing a guy and sleeping with his wife?
            Did Uriah come back to life?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Repentance is not undoing your actions, it's admitting you fricked up, feeling evil in your soul and asking God to forgive and purify you.

            So King Saul is in hell? Let's hear it.

            Why are you asking me something only God knows?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Repentance is not undoing your actions, it's admitting you fricked up, feeling evil in your soul and asking God to forgive and purify you.
            so it's not a work? It's faith only?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            I'm saying the faith comes first, and through that faith sincere repentance. Then after you've repented you will sincerely live a better life allowing your good works to justify that initial faith. If you just kept sinning after then obviously your faith was not enough.

            Protestants want the free ticket to heaven. Jesus said the path is narrow. You must live according to your faith, even if you mess up sometimes, or you never had real faith to begin with.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >There's such thing
            *There's no such thing

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      >So, according to christcucks who's more deserving of salvation
      >- a man of faith who does nothing
      >- a nonbeliever who acts like a moral and righteous hero
      The second scenario. Jesus was asked how one can know that you know him. Jesus said you will keep my commandments and that's how you will know that you know him. So if you live righteous life then you know Jesus whether you know him by name or not.

  4. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    reason 3468 why no one takes protestantism seriously

  5. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    Can anyone here who believes James was written by the Apostle James give me the historical evidence that actually supports that?

    The evidence is strong for the Gospels and the letters of Paul and Peter but I don't see it for James. I strongly suspect it of being a document not by an Apostle that some thought was, like the Apocalypse of Peter. Except this one did slip through the cracks.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      There really isn't evidence of authorship for something written that long ago. However the proof is that the Church affirms that James was written by the Apostle and the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit from error

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        That seems like a really poor standard - the Muratorian Canon and some ancient Christian sources take the Apocalypse of Peter to be canon for instance. We can make a really strong historical case for the authorship of almost all the rest of the New Testament (minus Hebrews), even stronger than most anything from secular literature at the time. Look at the case we can make for Matthew for example at https://www.tektonics.org/ntdocdef/mattdef.php

        But there's nothing like that for James that I can see

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          >That seems like a really poor standard
          according to what? your feels?

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      Eusebius in Church History 2.23.25 records the author of the Epistle of James to be James the Just, the Bishop of Jerusalem who is also called "the brother of the Lord".

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        Erm...did you even read your picture with what he says?

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          The fact that it was disputed does not negate the fact of traditional authorship by James. That it was later canonized means the authorship is a moot point anyway.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >The fact that it was disputed does not negate the fact of traditional authorship by James
            Indeed but the case for its acceptance seems paper thin. Thinner by far than even the Shepherd of Hermas

            >That it was later canonized means the authorship is a moot point anyway
            Only if you believe in extreme Infallibility of the Catholic church , which is very easy to disprove. Pope Francis has the catechism declaring the death penalty is wrong now despite previous Popes saying it was heretical to say heretics shouldn't be burned.

            For all we know, later it might say it was wrong about James too.

  6. 5 months ago
    Anonymous
  7. 5 months ago
    Ο Σολιταίρ

    James 2 is parallel with Romans 4
    Read both side by side and make them jive.

    The only way you can do this is to realize that James is speaking of justification before man. As Paul says
    >If Abraham WERE justified by works ["justified by works", as in James], he HATH whereof to glory, but NOT before God

    it's THAT simple; but statistics show that 99% of """Christians"""" have never read the New Testament cover-to-cover so expect the unlearned to be shocked by quotes out of context.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      "O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless? Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God. As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone." (James 2:20-24)

      • 5 months ago
        Ο Σολιταίρ

        >O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless?
        it doesn't say this
        objectively it doesn't say this.
        there is no way to translate νεκρά as "useless" unless you are LYING

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          >it doesn't say this
          >objectively it doesn't say this.
          >there is no way to translate νεκρά as "useless" unless you are LYING
          Huh? That is literally what it says.

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            >as the body without the spirit is useless...
            this is nonsense
            are you so dense you can't even guess* what "necra" means?
            >As the body without the spirit is NECRA...
            >Faith without works is NECRA
            Are you seriously going to go with the homosexual translators of modern versions over some of the most obvious Greek to ever exist?
            It's appalling that """"literal""""" versions are afraid to translate the word for DEAD as DEAD.

            >For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead.
            -The DOUAY RHEIMS

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            What do you think "dead" could possibly mean in that context apart from "worthless"?

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            A dead body is not doing deeds
            Dead faith is not doing deeds

            A dead body is not worthless
            A dead faith is not worthless

            Idk; will you really argue that the bodies of your loved ones are worthless?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >A dead faith is not worthless
            How so?

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            It saves you from Hell.
            The entire point of James' Epistle is to exhort Christians to be doers of good works in the strongest possible language.
            You are supposed to WANT to be Christian in addition to simply believing in Christ.
            Believing only is the requirement for salvation*.
            But on this earth and before man; before the church, your faith does nothing. Seriously; in context: if you are a respecter of persons; if you neglect your brethren; your faith is dead.
            Not "you're going to Hell"

            Reread Romans 4. Read it side by side with James 2. There is no other way to reconcile these scriptures; and it seems quite simple to me.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >It saves you from Hell.
            Then why does James say a dead faith cannot save?

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            explain this verse
            >If Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory, but not before God

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Paul is here referring to "works of the law", as in the Mosaic Law.

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            It's Abraham.
            The Law of Moses wouldn't come around for hundreds of years
            >ἡ is a definite article meaning "such, this one"
            it means "THE" and anything in the nominative case requires a definite article in Greek. Which means it's dropped in a translation to English.
            "τοιαύτη" is the word you're looking for which is absent.

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            meant for

            If believing that God saves me from death is begging the question, I am guilty.
            If you have textual evidence that salvation and saving in the text often doesn't mean that, I am interested. So far you showed me nothing of the sort.

            [...]
            δύναται ἡ πίστις σῶσαι αὐτόν
            ἡ is a definite article meaning "such, this one"

            [...]
            Yes, I made it simpler for you to understand.
            Whereas you just replaced "save" with "preserve" which could just as well mean what I'm saying. Eternal life.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >anything in the nominative case requires a definite article in Greek
            If you had read John you would know strategically leaving articles out when talking about generals/particulars is completely usual. Here it was not omitted. And everyone except protties a thousand years later understood this well.
            No idea where you think I mentioned Moses or Abraham.

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            that's true if it's anything other than nominative case.
            and there are 4 others in Greek. But in the nominative case the definite article is a requirement.
            >ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος
            the definite article isn't "Strategically dropped," breaking Greek grammar; instead it is unequivocally (in a grammatical sense) stating that θεὸς and λόγος are the identical subject. The article isn't dropped. It's still there; but θεὸς and λόγος are the same*. You don't have to keep repeating the definite article when listing off nouns which are all the same subject.

            Okay, for example;
            You could say either
            >Ο Σολιταίρ ο μαθητής
            (The Solitaire the student)
            >Ο Σολιταίρ μαθητής
            (The Solitaire student)
            or
            >Σολιταίρ ο μαθητής
            (Solitaire the student)
            All being synonymous with
            >Solitaire the student
            But all of these statements must include the definite article. And none of them ever mean
            >Solitaire such a student

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >But in the nominative case the definite article is a requirement.
            Simply false, Anon. Again, read John. John 1 will suffice even....
            >The article isn't dropped.
            >[Proceeds to explain how it's ok to drop it like that]
            We can use a different term if you don't like "drop". You still proved the point that nominative clause doesn't require the article. As it didn't in James. And again, everyone understood this until a couple centuries ago.

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            >You still proved the point that nominative clause [CASE] doesn't require the article.
            are you kidding me?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Case, my bad. ESL
            No, if I were kidding you I would pretend James was just interested in how others should spot faith. Which he never says.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            If "true" faith was always accompanied by works; why would James even have to point out that "faith without works is dead"?
            If someone truly believed in Jesus, then it would just be self-evident 100% of the time with no explanations required.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >why would James even have to point out that "faith without works is dead"?
            Because protties are not the first ones to get confused. They are just the first ones to make it their defining feature.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Is true faith always accompanied by works 100% of the time?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            I don't remember any example to the contrary in the Bible.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
            >But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
            >Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
            >Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
            >Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

            Anon...

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Anon what? You think David is an example of someone who didn't do works?

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            >But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
            >Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
            >Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

            what do these verses mean? what does it mean to be the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin?
            What does it mean to not* work, but* believe?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            So no examples of people who had faith and no works?

            >what do these verses mean?
            Honest to God? I 'm not sure. But seeing the fact that the most convenient interpretation (yours) is countered by a volume of other verses (some from Paul himself), I'd be careful about leaping into the faith-works dichotomy as you guys present it.

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            The thief on the cross famously called on the Lord Jesus Christ in his final hour(s)

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Public defense of Christ is a pretty good work in my books.

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            Is THAT how you interpret the story?
            Are you going to claim next that "believing" itself is a work?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Are you going to claim that public defense of God is faith alone?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Paul is teaching that the Law which is by works, had no bearing on the righteousness of Abraham. Not that Abraham was saved by faith alone.

            >It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. (Romans 4:13)

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            >the Law which is by works
            are you implying that the Law of Faith is not* by works? which is my* position
            It is the Law of Liberty which is by Christ Jesus.
            What you're saying is that we went from ONE Law of Works (Moses) to ANOTHER Law of Works (Christ/faith)

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >the homosexual translators of modern versions
            Are you OK, Anon?

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            Yes. They are homosexual translations. Even the Douay-Rheims is a much better translation than any of them

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            >as the body without the spirit is useless...
            this is nonsense
            are you so dense you can't even guess* what "necra" means?
            >As the body without the spirit is NECRA...
            >Faith without works is NECRA
            Are you seriously going to go with the homosexual translators of modern versions over some of the most obvious Greek to ever exist?
            It's appalling that """"literal""""" versions are afraid to translate the word for DEAD as DEAD.

            >For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead.
            -The DOUAY RHEIMS

            James 2:20 (Douay-Rheims)
            >But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

  8. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    >God admits it's possible for israelites to obey the Torah in the OT
    >God all of a sudden in the NT states that it's impossible to keep the Torah

    Either God directly contradicted himself or God always knew israelites would strive to keep the Torah, and that gentiles wouldn't. Therefore God created a new theology where gentiles were not obligated to obey the Torah as long as they believed in Christ. Then from that belief they could attempt to obey the law, thus being justified by works.

    Catholic thought is the middle ground between obeying the Torah (Judaism), and only believing in Christ (Protestantism).

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      Catholics don’t give a frick about the “torah”. Americans are the ones who love those hebrew bullshit stories in the israelite testament where Catholics only quote the psalms out of context at funerals and otherwise don’t care about it. It’s theologically worthless and was made canon to convert israelites. Protestantism was subverted by dispensationalism, a heresy that nobody cared about until zionists funded and promoted the scofield reference bible. Now all these Protestant Americans are judaized israelite lovers saying hebrews were their ancestors, israelites are the chosen people, Jesus will rapture them and israelites will become Christians, and other nonsensical bullshit that’s been exploited to promote support for Israel and create generations of gentile israelite lovers

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        Jesus summed up the Torah as loving God, and loving your neighbour as yourself. God still wants you to keep the law (as interpreted by Christ) if you have faith in him. Useless legalism like circumcision and dietary restrictions are not required though.

  9. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    This thread shows what happens when you disagree with the great Luther and actually believe that the evidence shows the Epistle of Straw was written by an Apostle

  10. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    Prottards be like
    >Um, St James said "justified by works AND NOT BY FAITH ALONE", but he didn't actually mean that. He actually meant the literal opposite of what he said, that you ARE justified by faith alone. (Works are just the fruits of faith.)

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      REAL protestants be like
      "lmao, the Epistle of Straw, you take that seriously?"

  11. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    John was not inspired

  12. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    Roman Catholics are such heretics, lol. Saint Paulinus even says Faith Alone.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      >faith apart from the Law is "faith alone"

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        "Since this is to be sought by faith alone"
        What is "this"? Go ahead. We'll play educational games today.

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          Faith apart from works of the Law. I just said that. No Christian believes you are saved by works of the Law.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Obviously you can't read too well. Let's try again.
            "Since THIS is to be sought by faith alone."

            What is "THIS"?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            It's saying that salvation is by faith apart from works of the Law. Not by "faith alone" in the sense that you mean it, which is a dead faith without works.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            "[Salvation] is to be sought by faith alone." - SAINT PAULINUS OF NOLA

            Repent of your heresy, Prottie.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            First of all why are we arguing over the words of Saint Paulinus? Second, do you actually think that Saint Paulinus believed in salvation by "faith alone" in the Lutheran sense of not requiring any good works? Or are you just being facetious?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            I believe in real Christian doctrine. Not whatever fantasy you made up for yourself. Hitler said this:
            >"None of the religions of antiquity, no Black idolatry, not even the most primitive sects of the Mohammedan, Indian, or Chinese religions has created so many gods and auxiliary deities as the Roman Church.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >The guy who is arguing for faith alone also supports Hitler.
            You know, somehow I'm not surprised.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >the Heretic is not a fan of Hitler
            I, too, am not suprised.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            A heretic is someone who disagrees with the Catholic faith.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Lutheran sense of not requiring any good works
            Book of concord citation? Or are you that stupid?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            37 1. That thereby [through these particles] all our own works, merit, worthiness, glory, and confidence in all our works are entirely excluded in the article of justification so that our works shall not be constituted or regarded as either the cause or the merit of justification, neither entirely, nor half, nor in the least part, upon which God could or ought to look, or we to rely in this article and action.

            38 2. That this remain the office and property of faith alone, that it alone, and nothing else whatever, is the means or instrument by and through which God’s grace and the merit of Christ in the promise of the Gospel are received, apprehended, accepted, applied to us, and appropriated; and that from this office and property of such application or appropriation love and all other virtues or works are excluded.

            39 3. That neither renewal, sanctification, virtues nor good works are tamquam forma aut pars aut causa iustificationis, that is, our righteousness before God, nor are they to be constituted and set up as a part or cause of our righteousness, or otherwise under any pretext, title, or name whatever to be mingled in the article of justification as necessary and belonging thereto; but that the righteousness of faith consists alone in the forgiveness of sins out of pure grace, for the sake of Christ’s merit alone; which blessings are offered us in the promise of the Gospel, and are received, accepted, applied, and appropriated by faith alone.

            40 In the same manner the order also between faith and good works must abide and be maintained, and likewise between justification and renewal, or sanctification.

            https://bookofconcord.org/solid-declaration/righteousness-of-faith/

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >We believe, teach, and confess also that all men, but those especially who are born again and renewed by the Holy Ghost, are bound to do good works
            > 6. Accordingly, we also believe, teach, and confess that when it is said: The regenerate do good works from a free spirit, this is not to be understood as though it is at the option of the regenerate man to do or to forbear doing good when he wishes, and that he can nevertheless retain faith if he intentionally perseveres in sins.
            >Open and hard-hearted sinners are not admitted to the Sacrament and other communion of the Church until they amend their lives and avoid sin [1 Corinthians 5]. Smalcald Articles- Martin Luther

            >God threatens to punish all who sin against these commandments. Therefore, we should fear His wrath and not act contrary to these commandments. But He promises grace and every blessing to all who keep these commandments. Therefore, we should also love and trust in Him and gladly do what He commands. Small Catechism- Martin Luther.
            You are to do good works as a Lutheran.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            But good works are not necessary for salvation as a Lutheran. How many levels of cope are you on right now?

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            If good works were necessary for salvation we'd all have to be Jesus Christ.
            What is this that you don't understand who or what Jesus is? Or what he has done for us?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Good works are necessary for a thing we call "belief". If you think Jesus saves but don't live it, how do you have belief, Anon?

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            Works are necessary for belief...?
            Make that make sense.

            Jesus atoned for sin. The only way to "live" that belief is to pay it back (insufficiently) by following Christ.
            How does that mean that Christ atones for me but then has to check how well I (a finite creature) has paid back his infinite atonement?
            Did he atone or not? He revokes his atonement based on your works which he saved you from?
            Huh?
            Is he the "propitiation for sin" or not?

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            Works are necessary for belief...?
            Make that make sense.

            Jesus atoned for sin. The only way to "live" that belief is to pay it back (insufficiently) by following Christ.
            How does that mean that Christ atones for me but then has to check how well I (a finite creature) has paid back his infinite atonement?
            Did he atone or not? He revokes his atonement based on your works which he saved you from?
            Huh?
            Is he the "propitiation for sin" or not?

            Basically; it's not me who is confused over terms such as
            >Propitiation
            >Ransom
            >Free gift
            >Apart from works
            >not by works of righteousness which we have done
            >If by grace, then it is no more of works
            >if by works, then it is no more grace
            >To him that worketh not, but believeth
            etc.
            actually mean*

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            It is not cope because it is in the Lutheran confession. Your assumption is not true. Lutherans take good works very seriously and the importance of good works in Christian life. There is a differentiation between two kinds of righteousness. On one hand there is passive righteousness. Which is the the righteousness we receive before God that determines our justification before God. This righteousness is purely an act of God’s grace we passively receive it. Faith receives righteousness that comes from to us as a free gift. It is all the work of Jesus Christ done for the sake of of sinners in his perfect life, death, and resurrection. There is another kind of righteousness called active righteousness. Which is as we receive this passive righteousness we are called to live lives of service to our neighbor. Our active righteousness does not determine our standing before God. But that does not make it unimportant. God has put us on this earth to do good works. He has prepared good works we are called to walk in as St. Paul tells us in Ephesians. Active righteousness is an essential part of life.
            Lutherans have a category of mortal sin. And a Christian can engage in sin in such a way that salvation is forfeited. Which means you can’t live in unrepentant sin, be confronted about the unrepentant sin and still refuse to repent or confess them. That is not to say you earn anything before God by keeping your faith with good work, but it is possible to forfeit your salvation.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Protestants can't distinguish works of the law (613 commandments) over the works of Christ (Loving God with all your heart and soul, and your neighbour like yourself). For them it's just "faith" (lip service to God) or works (everything else).

          • 5 months ago
            Ο Σολιταίρ

            >Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
            exegete this verse

  13. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    Protestantism is silly but I don't see how you can take Catholicism or Orthodoxy seriously either when they're bathing in water a dead guy's foot was dipped in or the various weird things Catholics believe about Mary's breast milk

  14. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    The bottom line is that you don't earn salvation through works. Good works are merely a prerequisite. Because if you're not doing good works, then you're doing bad works. And storing up condemnation.

    • 5 months ago
      Ο Σολιταίρ

      >Because if you're not doing good works, then you're doing bad works. And storing up condemnation.
      I agree with this; but the punishment is for THIS life.
      This is why Ananias and Sapphira just dropped dead. "to whom much is given much shall be required"
      >For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
      >If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
      >But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        I never received such chastisement during my time at church. In fact, all my cartoons were horrible (Johnny test). My black lady just screeches all day and sounds like a israelite despite being Christian. I can't deal with people interfering with my life, as if I need guidance. Let me live and float by the river.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      1 Peter 3:21 says that baptism saves. So we don't need faith or works, we are saved by baptism alone.

      • 5 months ago
        Ο Σολιταίρ

        Anon has a point...
        Paul also declares
        >Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
        I guess that means the old Mormons were right; teaching that only women with children will be saved...

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        Baptism is an outward sing of faith.

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          So good works are an outward sign of faith?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Baptism is not a good works.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            How is it not a work? Or do you mean it is not good?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            You are receiving something. It is not of your own doing.

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        Sure, if you just toss out the rest of the Bible and cherry pick that pretending that nothing else was said on the matter. It's like saying your car gets you from point a to point b, then neglecting to read the rest of the manual where it says you need gasoline to get the car moving.

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Dismass the theif enters the chat.

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          He was baptized after death

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >He was baptized after death
            Interesting cope. Okay so I guess I don't have to worry about getting baptized in this life then.

  15. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    So, according to christcucks who's most likely to obtain salvation
    - a man of faith who does nothing
    - a nonbeliever who acts like a moral and righteous hero

  16. 5 months ago
    VISIT www.johnthebaptist.us

    https://www.johnthebaptist.us/jbw_english/documents/video_pages/lectures/rjmi/vlr068_wq_faith_without_works_dead.html

  17. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    I would propose that the bible clearly does not agree on the role of works in salvation, probably because the early Christians disagreed on the issue.

  18. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    The real question is why any self-respecting white man would worship the racial supremacist god of another people. Is there anything more cucked in the universe?

  19. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    The truth is the Bible contradicts itself on this matter. Both sides are correct and have valid citation.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      Not if you go with apostolic tradition, which correctly interprets the verse. Frick off, pagan.

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        Nothing grants your church authority. It was created by Constantine and shaped by Augustine, an ex-gnostic you brought a bunch of those views into his creation. It has nothing to do with the original church.

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Nothing grants your church authority. It was created by Constantine and shaped by Augustine, an ex-gnostic you brought a bunch of those views into his creation. It has nothing to do with the original church.
          You're welcome to prove it. I know the Jack Chick tracts, my guy. It ain't gonna work.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >You're welcome to prove it.
            Prove what? That your church has nothing to do with the original church? Sure okay -- here's Hippolytus illustrating the original church. This isn't you. Also it's not my burden to prove a negative. It's yours to prove you are the original church. It's not looking good so far.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            No, I meant your original assertions, dumbass. Stop gish-galloping, it's not going to save you.

            And you do realize that Hippolytus was saying this in a time where Christians were being persecuted in Rome by the Roman SOLDIERS, right? Of course one would despise God by joining the very faction that makes martyrs out of the church. Christianity wasn't even legal in Rome until Constantine came along. Stop trying to divorce these quotes from the context they originate from, heretic.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >And you do realize that Hippolytus was saying this in a time where Christians were being persecuted in Rome by the Roman SOLDIERS, right? Of course one would despise God by joining the very faction that makes martyrs out of the church. Christianity wasn't even legal in Rome until Constantine came along. Stop trying to divorce these quotes from the context they originate from, heretic.
            He didn't say any of that, that was you just inserting your own opinions. Church regulations are very clear. A Christian doesn't become a soldier. There's nothing more to it. A man killing a wicked person mourns God. A Christian would never do it.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >He didn't say any of that
            Neither did he say anything YOU'RE saying, either. Self-defeating argument. His rationale is obvious, given the milieu of his time; a Christian becoming a Roman soldier despises God because it is the very same Romans that persecute the church.

            Seriously, get to the point. What's the contradiction here, moron?

            Justin would also have you and your entire church excommunicated.

            And how does this contradict Catholic just war theology? He's clearly talking about a wicked type of war, not a just one, hence the phrase: "and every kind of wickedness." Catholicism doesn't promote wicked wars, only just ones.

            Irenaeus would also excommunicate you and your entire church. The entire original church would excommunicate you. Because you are not of their church. You don't even agree on the fundamentals.

            Nothing about this precludes a just war.

            Seriously, is this all you got? Pathetic. Stop scraping these self-fellating protestant blogs as if they'll save you. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Also, stop running, you wicked son of the devil. Answer your original assertion. How did Constantine and Augustine "invent" Catholicism? I'm not going to let you run, pussy.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            The hell you talking about running? I'm literally giving you the most straightforward statements the original church has in illustrating how your church has nothing to do with it. You just cast them aside so there's no point in talking to you. You just pretend the words aren't there and just insert your own ideas. It's a useless conversation.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            So if I tell you what Irenaeus and Justin Martyr had to say about the church, would you unequivocally accept it? Because you clearly believe them to retain the original apostolic deposit of faith, correct?

            YOU JUST TRAPPED YOURSELF, moron! AHAHAHAHA

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Justin would also have you and your entire church excommunicated.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Irenaeus would also excommunicate you and your entire church. The entire original church would excommunicate you. Because you are not of their church. You don't even agree on the fundamentals.

  20. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    Here is a real Septuagint line.

  21. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    Faith alone is sufficient for salvation, but a living faith is accompanied by good works.

    Also there's no fooling God, he knows what's in your heart. If you sincerely believe you are saved, if you don't sincerely believe and just pretend to be the "member of a club" that is not faith. You're only pretending to be a Christian.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Luke 8:11-15 KJVAAE
      >Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the wayside are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

      >Matthew 13:19-23 KJVAAE
      > When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the wayside. But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        "‘When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. Then the king will say to those at his right hand, “Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.” Then the righteous will answer him, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?” And the king will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.” Then he will say to those at his left hand, “You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.” Then they also will answer, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?” Then he will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.” And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.’" Matthew 25:31-46

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          This has already happened.

          >Daniel 12:2 KJVAAE
          >And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

          >Matthew 27:52-53 KJVAAE
          >and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

          >John 5:46 KJVAAE
          >For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

          >Romans 10:5 KJVAAE
          >For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            No, the day of Judgment did not "already happen".

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Seethe more at the Word of God.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Liar, the Judgment did not happen yet

            [...]
            2 Peter 3:7
            By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            No, the day of Judgment did not "already happen".

            2 Peter 3:7
            By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Liar, the Judgment did not happen yet [...]

            Imagine being so wicked and blind.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            I won the argument, cry about it deceiver.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Daniel 7:22 KJVAAE
            until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the Most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Revelation 20:11-15
            The Final Judgment

            11 And I saw a great white throne and the one sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide. 12 I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave[a] gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. 14 Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. 15 And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.

            1/3

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            [...]
            2 Peter 3:7-14
            7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

            8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

            9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

            10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

            11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

            12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

            13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

            14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

            2/3

            [...]
            [...]
            Zephaniah 2-3
            “I will completely sweep away
            everything from the face of the earth,”declares the LORD.

            3 “I will sweep away man and beast; I will sweep away the birds of the air, and the fish of the sea, and the idols with their wicked worshipers. I will cut off mankind from the face of the earth,” declares the LORD.

            The Day of the LORD

            "The whole earth will be consumed
            by the fire of His jealousy.”

            For indeed, He will make a sudden end of all who dwell on the earth.

            3/3

            >Daniel 12:1-2 KJVAAE
            >And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

            >1 Peter 3:18-20 KJVAAE
            >For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            The Return of the Son of Man
            (Matthew 24:26–31; Luke 21:25–28)

            24 But in those days, after that tribulation:

            ‘The sun will be darkened,

            and the moon will not give its light;

            25 the stars will fall from the sky,

            and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’

            26 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And He will send out the angels to gather His elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            [...]
            Let's summarize. The events of Revelation did not happen yet (some argue the end times just started recently). The second coming of Christ did not happen yet. The Judgment, and the end of the world did not happen yet. The earth (and all life in it) was not destroyed yet, and there is no new heavens and earth yet.

            Revelation 21
            Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

            These events happen in the future, and no the resurrection was not the second coming.

            /thread

            Revelation 22:20-21
            He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

            Matthew 25 parallels Daniel 12. No one is "sleeping in the dust of the earth" right now. They are either in Heaven or in Hell. There was a time where they were sleeping. Matthew 25 has already happened.
            >Matthew 27:52-53 KJVAAE
            >and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            The events of Revelation did not happen yet (some argue the end times just started recently). The second coming of Christ did not happen yet. The Judgment, and the end of the world did not happen yet. The earth (and all life in it) was not destroyed yet, and there is no new heavens and earth yet.

            Get that through your thick skull.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            You are a prideful fool or a devil.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Be quiet deceiving spirit, and get behind me Satan. You're ignoring all of Christian eschatological scripture to push your pet theory that the Judgment and second coming of Christ already happened. You know nothing about God's plan, hold your lying tongue.

            >But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            And you believe Satan hasn't been cast out of heaven yet.

            >Revelation 12:5-9 KJVAAE
            >And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Don't tell me what I believe. I believe in the truth alone. The Revelation is about the past and the future. The war in heaven already happened. Michael the arch-angel won a victory over Satan. The Michael mentioned in Daniel will win a victory over the beast in the future. This is a symbolic name for Christ. Christ will defeat Satan on earth the same way Michael the arch-angel. defeated Satan in heaven.

            >to push your pet theory that second coming of Christ already happened.
            And you're a false accuser. It never ends with you people.

            You ignored the entirety of scripture, only selectively choosing verses to support your views, and denied the second coming of Christ that will happen. You are an Anti-Christ.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Steven Anderson teaches Satan has not been cast out of Heaven yet. Isn't that the person I'm arguing against, one of his shills?

            The war in Heaven is when Michael stood up. Daniel 12 and Matthew 25 are parallel. Sounds like you're having a meltdown.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

            Second coming of Christ in the future. Not the arch-angel.

            >And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

            This already happened in the past, the actual arch-angel won the war in heaven.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >and at that time thy people shall be delivered
            Hmm, when did this happen?

            Colossians 1:13 KJVAAE
            [13] who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son.

            Colossians 1:18 KJVAAE
            [18] and he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the pre-eminence.

            Colossians 2:15 KJVAAE
            [15] and having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            WHERE is the new heavens and earth. WHEN was the first earth and heavens, and all life in it destroyed. WHEN did Christ return and rule for 1000 years? If it all already happened.

            Revelation 20
            [1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
            [2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
            [3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
            [4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
            [5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Matthew 25 happened. Daniel 12 happened. Revelation 20 has not happened. You're really trying hard to justify your false accusations.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Matthew 25 happened
            The Judgment did not happen, because the Judgment is literally the moment God destroys this earth, and creates a new earth.

            >Revelation 20 has not happened.
            Correct

            Revelation 20
            [11] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
            [12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            You're a false teacher. You won't even admit Daniel 12 happened, which is a clear parallel of Matthew 25.
            >Daniel 12:1 KJVAAE
            >And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

            Michael stood up. (Revelation 12:7)
            God delivered us through His Son. (Colossians 1:13)

            I am delivered.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >every one that shall be found written in the book

            >Revelation 20
            [11] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
            [12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

            >Revelation 20 has not happened.

            >false teacher
            Says the deceiver who's ignoring entire passages from scripture to pretend like the Judgment already happened, and that the second coming of Christ was the resurrection.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            If Revelation 20 is Daniel 12, who is sleeping in the dust of the Earth? The Saints are in Heaven.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            There is ONE Judgment. Not two, three, four judgments. All verses refer to the one and only judgment.

            Where did I say Michael was Jesus Christ, false accuser? Michael stood up when Christ was on Earth.

            Daniel 12 is about Christ, not the arch-angel Michael. Michael is a symbolic name for Christ like Christ being referred to as David in the messianic Psalms.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            The FINAL Judgment /thread.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >There is ONE Judgment. Not two, three, four judgments. All verses refer to the one and only judgment.
            You're a false teacher.
            Judgement 1: Colossians 2:14
            Judgement 2: Revelation 20:4
            <1000 years>
            Judgement 3: Revelation 20:13
            >

            Where did I say Michael was Jesus Christ, false accuser? Michael stood up when Christ was on Earth.


            >Daniel 12 is about Christ, not the arch-angel Michael.
            And yet you just called me a Jehovah's Witness?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            THE FINAL JUDGMENT

            The FINAL Judgment /thread.

            You already claimed Matthew 25 already happened, deceiving spirit. Matthew 25 is...

            THE
            FINAL
            JUDGMENT

            [...]
            [...]
            Meltdown.

            Yes, the earth will be meltdown and be destroyed by fire during THE FINAL JUDGMENT

            >Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Nooo, I didn't mean to take away from the Book of Revelation and commit heresy
            Well, too late.

            There is ONE Judgment. Not two, three, four judgments. All verses refer to the one and only judgment.

            [...]
            Daniel 12 is about Christ, not the arch-angel Michael. Michael is a symbolic name for Christ like Christ being referred to as David in the messianic Psalms.

            >There is ONE Judgment. Not two, three, four judgments. All verses refer to the one and only judgment.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            You claimed Matthew 25 already happened. You preached a false gospel. Matthew 25 is THE FINAL JUDGMENT, and that is the TRUTH

            The FINAL Judgment /thread.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Daniel 12:2 KJVAAE
            >And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
            Who is sleeping?

            Don't worry, I'll tell you.
            >Matthew 27:52 KJVAAE
            >and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Did Matthew 25 happen yet?

            (You) said yes, but it didn't.
            Because it's the FINAL JUDGMENT

            The FINAL Judgment /thread.

            You will never recover from this.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >John 5:25-29 KJVAAE
            >Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; and hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >2 Peter 3:7-11
            >7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
            >8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
            >9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
            >10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
            >11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness

            Prepare for the FINAL JUDGMENT

            The FINAL Judgment /thread.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            It's over. Admit you're wrong.

            >John 5:25-29 KJVAAE
            >Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; and hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Your passage from John only confirms the authority Christ will have on the FINAL JUDGMENT. It was already over as soon as Matthew 25 was confirmed to be about the FINAL JUDGMENT

            The FINAL Judgment /thread.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Admit you're wrong.
            You will not escape the Judgment, no one will. You will be judged in righteousness on the Day of The Lord.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            The FINAL Judgment /thread.

            It didn't happen yet, deal with it. [...]

            Meltdown.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            It didn't happen yet, deal with it.

            The FINAL Judgment /thread.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Revelation 12:7
            Michael the arch-angel is not the symbolic Michael (Christ) in Daniel. You Jehova's Witness heretic. Christ is not Michael, don't blaspheme God.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Where did I say Michael was Jesus Christ, false accuser? Michael stood up when Christ was on Earth.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >to push your pet theory that second coming of Christ already happened.
            And you're a false accuser. It never ends with you people.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            The Return of the Son of Man
            (Matthew 24:26–31; Luke 21:25–28)

            24 But in those days, after that tribulation:

            ‘The sun will be darkened,

            and the moon will not give its light;

            25 the stars will fall from the sky,

            and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’

            26 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And He will send out the angels to gather His elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

            Let's summarize. The events of Revelation did not happen yet (some argue the end times just started recently). The second coming of Christ did not happen yet. The Judgment, and the end of the world did not happen yet. The earth (and all life in it) was not destroyed yet, and there is no new heavens and earth yet.

            Revelation 21
            Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

            These events happen in the future, and no the resurrection was not the second coming.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            /thread

            Revelation 22:20-21
            He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Revelation 20:11-15
            The Final Judgment

            11 And I saw a great white throne and the one sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide. 12 I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave[a] gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. 14 Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. 15 And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.

            1/3

            2 Peter 3:7-14
            7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

            8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

            9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

            10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

            11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

            12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

            13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

            14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

            2/3

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Revelation 20:11-15
            The Final Judgment

            11 And I saw a great white throne and the one sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide. 12 I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave[a] gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. 14 Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. 15 And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.

            1/3

            [...]
            2 Peter 3:7-14
            7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

            8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

            9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

            10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

            11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

            12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

            13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

            14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

            2/3

            Zephaniah 2-3
            “I will completely sweep away
            everything from the face of the earth,”declares the LORD.

            3 “I will sweep away man and beast; I will sweep away the birds of the air, and the fish of the sea, and the idols with their wicked worshipers. I will cut off mankind from the face of the earth,” declares the LORD.

            The Day of the LORD

            "The whole earth will be consumed
            by the fire of His jealousy.”

            For indeed, He will make a sudden end of all who dwell on the earth.

            3/3

  22. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    It's so funny that thousands of lifetimes have been spent trying to decode a book of parables and phrases and saying that sought after no true internal consistency. It's really a perfect virgin chad type dynamic.
    >The Chad religious figure. Just say things that sound good and holy and cool. It's not a system or a code or anything just say some cool shit when a peasant wants help or something.
    >The virgin theologian. Spend your whole life picking through things said in passing and try to glean some coherent system from it. Become hyper educated to sift through it in its original language.

  23. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Matthew 25:46 KJVAAE
    >And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    >Daniel 12:2 KJVAAE
    >And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

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