There is nothing more pathetic than an atheist moralist

"if you need the fear of God to stop you from doing bad things, then you're actually not a good person at all, and only acting out of self interest"

This is the stupidest, most embarrassing comment that atheists regularly make. How is it possible that it doesn't occur to them that under their materialist worldview, the explanation for morality is that it is an evolved instinct?

The atheist avoids immoral action either because he is afraid of the social consequences, or he is a slave to his evolved capacity for guilt.

Under atheism, from a purely first person perspective, if you can avoid getting caught, and avoid feeling too guilty, you are well advised to screw over everyone you can, to your own benefit. "But muh social cohesion" the fitness benefit your genes will enjoy from psychopathic behaviour is much higher than the fitness cost they endure from the minimal impact on "social cohesion" that such behaviour will produce.

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  1. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >How is it possible that it doesn't occur to them that under their materialist worldview, the explanation for morality is that it is an evolved instinct?
    It does occur to all of them.

    >Under atheism, from a purely first person perspective, if you can avoid getting caught, and avoid feeling too guilty, you are well advised to screw over everyone you can, to your own benefit.
    First, getting caught is more likely than you assume. Second, this doesn't follow from morality being evolved instinct. Third, friendly reminder that US prison population is disproportionately Christian.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      >First, getting caught is more likely than you assume
      You don't begin to understand what you're talking about. You're a good boy because you're scared to get caught? Lmao alright champ, good for you. Keep it up, you're doing the right thing.

      >Second this doesn't follow from morality being evolved instinct
      No idea what "this" refers to. Morality being evolved instinct means moral feelings are no more significant than feelings of hunger.

      >Us prison population is disproportionately Christian
      Yeah, atheists are midwit cowards who live is discordance with their worldview.

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        >You're a good boy because you're scared to get caught? Lmao alright champ, good for you. Keep it up, you're doing the right thing.
        I'm a good boy because of my evolved instincts. I literally established that. The ones who (pretend they) are good boys because they're scared to get caught are... *drum roll* That's right: Christians.

        >No idea what "this" refers to.
        The quote. I know Christians have utter shit attention spans due to extreme authoritarian abuse in their dysfunctional families, but you're gonna have to get that sorted out before trying to have arguments with grownups online.

        >Morality being evolved instinct means moral feelings are no more significant than feelings of hunger.
        Yes.

        >Yeah, atheists are midwit cowards who live is discordance with their worldview.
        Oh NOW you don't give a shit about morality? ROFL

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          You are very inconsistent.
          >you are all le Christians
          Obsessed.
          The primary enemy of atheists today are not Christians. They are ex Christians or lifelong atheists or agnostics who are arguing against the absurdity of liberal atheists.
          >my instincts make me moral
          This only means that your ethical system is just as legitimate as the antithesis of your ethical system, which leaves us only conflict to determine who is ‘right’. Furthermore if a side that genocides the other asserts their morality, then they were right all along because their morality serves its purpose of survival.
          I am near certain you are at least uncomfortable with the notion of TND. But if TND lead to anyone personally expanding their genes beyond what they would have without detriment to themselves, it is therefore moral for that individual to carry out TND, yes?

  2. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >People only die
    >No one is ever born to replace them.
    >Especially one of the groups that have more children than most.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      >than most
      This isn't really meaningful as church-attending Catholics are still below replacement and are experiencing largescale conversion to Protestantism and atheism.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      Catholicism is dying in even Latin America, birthrates aren't saving Catholics.

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        >than most
        This isn't really meaningful as church-attending Catholics are still below replacement and are experiencing largescale conversion to Protestantism and atheism.

        this argument fails when you go a little further and realize that the only people that procreate are devout Catholics that will have 5+ children and raise all of their children in the faith while that atheist will marry, have a dog, and not have any children or at most one (non-religious people don't have children), thereby ending their atheist lineage while those 5 children will grow marry have 5+ children each etc.

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          And if you went "a little further" (i.e. weren't a stunted idiot) you'd understand that simply having 5+ kids and raising them with a conservative religious upbringing is no guarantee that they'll all go on and repeat the same thing when they hit maturity.

          Like seriously, where the frick do you think the current crop of atheists and/or otherwise irreligious people stem from? They just periodically spring out of the ground or something

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Religion is genetic
          Most atheists in the US today are apostates from some other religion. Zoomers are the least religious generation in history even after factoring in birthrates and mass immigration from Latin America. I don't think people here realize how unpopular Catholicism is among 2nd or 3rd gen immigrants.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      No one is born religious moron

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        Being religious stems from instinct not from being taught. Humans will naturally find meaning in things.

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          Quite wrong.

          A religion is an establishment of doctrine, narrative, symbols, rituals and values that is by definition TAUGHT. Religious concepts are commonly known as "teachings." Humans do have an instinct toward assigning agency and meaning to (non-human) aspects of their world and their lives. A religion is a system TEACHING them how to interpret and channel those instincts as deemed by proper by somebody else, and carried down through tradition.

          It can be argued that humans are "naturally" spiritual. Religiosity, as distinct from spirituality (and it is), is a social phenomenon.

  3. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    So you're saying "morality only exists due to fear of God and atheists are deluding themselves otherwise" - which is only kind of proving their point about how amoral Christians actually are

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      No, atheists are simply slaves to feelings of guilt and the fear of being punished. And they proclaim that in fact there is something special about their morality, deserving praise, but of course this is just part of the game of morality. It is signalling for the sake of self interest. It's self interest and slavery all the way down

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        You're ENTIRELY acting out of self-interest/fear if the only reason you're doing good is out of fear, bro. At least atheists can cite other reasons for doing good (its intrinsic value, for one)

        It seems like you're upset because deep down you know you're being called out for a good reason. Being a Christian hasn't made you more moral.

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          >At least atheists can cite other reasons for doing good (its intrinsic value, for one)
          HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      >due to fear of God
      Christians, israelites and muslims do not remotely behave like they fear their god or think its actually real either.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      That wouldn’t make Christians amoral in a Christian worldview tho, so it is consistent.
      Whereas no one can be moral in an atheistic worldview because there is no basis for morality.
      All of this is waxing poetic for why humans evolved to have morals, but evolved morality is anti liberal.
      If you can maximize your genetic output through genocide, then genocide is a moral good, there is nothing else that can be said.
      Atheists want Christian liberal ethics but they don’t want God. You either get God’s law or that of tooth and claw. There is no in between or alternative.
      If there is no God then anything that works goes.
      If there is a God, then you ought to stay your hand even if it benefits you.

  4. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >"if you need the fear of God to stop you from doing bad things, then you're actually not a good person at all, and only acting out of self interest"

    It's not fear of God that enables one to good things in the first place. It's Grace.
    Fear is the beginning of knowledge-Proverbs 1:7
    It is not the end.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      >It's not fear of God that enables one to good things in the first place. It's Grace.
      This is cope. FOMO begins with Fear.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      >fear of the lord is the beginning of all wisdom

      Fear comes first

  5. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >gets BTFOd in the other thread
    >makes a new one to cry and get BTFOd again
    lmfao

  6. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >The atheist avoids immoral action either because he is afraid of the social consequences, or he is a slave to his evolved capacity for guilt.
    This is functionally the same as not commiting immoral acts due to fear of hell or religious guilt. Literally what is the point of this thread?

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      He's losing in the other thread and is too prideful to just stop posting.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      The difference is that the atheist can reflect on his guilt, and understand it to be a mere emotional state, and thereby diminish it for the sake of achieving some rational end.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      its pretty much religious larpers trying to grasp at straws since his previous arguments didn't work out

  7. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Following any single ideology or belief system doesn't automatically make someone good or bad. There are religious people who are good and bad. That's a human problem. Many atheists are just midwits.

  8. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    If theists weren't cowards they would enforce their will regardless of God's restrictions.

  9. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >and avoid feeling too guilty
    "If there is no wound on one's hand, one can handle poison. Poison has no effect where there is no wound. There is no evil for the non-doer."

  10. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >atheists run away from original thread after getting owned
    Hilarious

  11. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    As always, atheists are too idiotic to realize that in a world wherein God does not punish people for behaving immorally and merely allows the good to attain the intrinsic reward for pursuing that which is noble and transcendental, only those who intrinsically pursue the good do good; in a world in which he does, both those who do what is right for its own sake and those who would do good insofar as they wish to avoid being punished will choose to pursue higher ends. To this one might subsequently add that laws and their concomitant punishment have a pedagogical purpose: they induce the bestial and profligate to contemplate the good through habit. Men are insufflated through discipline and punishment with knowledge of that which is good and transcendental; many who are driven solely by fear to do good are instilled through conditioning with a desire to intrinsically pursue the good.

    Furthermore, midwitted atheists misapprehend that morality depends on God in two senses: an ontological sense, and a legalistic sense. God, being the most highest and transcendental reality, is the telos and skopos of all that lower realities depend on and find most desirous. All the carnal pleasures of this plane are false desires, mediated desires for the ultimate and most sublime reality that is God; indulgence in the hedonistic passions is fictive, finite, fissiparous, fleeting form of pleasure, tiresome and inpermanent, whereas unity with God in His energies is the most highest form of self-actualization, the most supremely sublime and fulfilling bliss. Without any sort higher supranatural realities, there is little reason to eschew dissipation in the atavistic instincts of this world -- little reason not to succumb to the desire to satiate each vile passion at the expense of others. Since doing good to others is not itself a path to fulfillment, since there is no higher telos beyond the material, morality is a mirage.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      It is only subsequently that morality depends on God as a Lawgiver, who punishes those who deviate from their telos in His transcendental being; His being the metaphysical principle that engenders the Good as the Supreme Good and His being the Will imposes norms on our wills is mutually complementary, since His Will is identical to His Intellect; His Laws are a reflection of His most perfect Wisdom and could not be any other way, and His being the ontological basis for the Good induces Him to impose His moral laws upon to guide us to Himself.

  12. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    [...]

    I'm saying these people are quietly admitting they worship god not out of love, admiration, and respect but rather out of fear they would be tortured to death.

    I'm a follower of Universalism because I know how big the universe is and I see these "god fearing" Christians looking down on other people with their small town, small world mind set.

    To these "god fearing" Christians the worse kind of hell is not burning in a lake of fire but rather facing a reality where kind heart Buddhists & Muslims get to experience paradise with kind heart'ed Christians.

    These "god fearing" Christians want a punitive type of hell to enable them to fantasize watching people who they despise suffer for trillions of years

  13. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Kant did. He himself touts in his essays his moral system for being applicable in a purely secular context (which can essentially be reduced to, good is whatever helps the most people and evil is whatever harms the most people. What's truly good can't just be good for yourself, it has to be good for everyone).

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      Well he failed in doing so. Defining the highest form of the Good as being a univocal Good, equally applicable to all in all scenarios with what is good for one being good for another and all interests of all parties being in perfect alignment, is something that goes back to Plato, but what Kant lacks is a metaphysical demonstration of what undergirds that ultimate Good or to demonstrate the feasibility of its existing. That doesn't really address anything I said.

  14. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Shows an image of a legitimately cringy thing an Aithiest posted.
    >Rants about how much they hate atheists with a passion.
    >Pic is unrelated to rant.

    Honestly, religious people molding over Aithism is more cringe than atheists.

  15. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >He thinks an unproven punishment can deter a sociopath

  16. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Morality is not absolute but relative. Atheists can have a moral frame of reference that may not be entirely based on religious principles. One’s upbringing, education, society and life experiences can shape moral thinking, and even an atheist can act morally because of these factors. This argument proves the stupidity of assuming that the absence of god means the absence of moral reasoning. Theistic morality lacks a scientific foundation, the most fundamental aspect of a valid belief system. Atheism is not as shallow as moral reasoning based on religious fear.

  17. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >people are slaves to evolved guilt/social constraints!
    ok, and?
    >but I want to steal and murder people!
    ok, and?
    why are you coming here seething about it and attempting to ask for permission for it instead of going and doing it?

  18. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    I mean this arguments are literally subject to the same criticism as the ones Christians make towards atheism. What seems something morally God other than because God said so? The whole euthyphro thing.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      Did you even read a single thing I wrote?

  19. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    It reads kind of like he's saying that being subject to your own conscience is a selfish base instinct and somehow pathetic.

  20. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    This and the fact that their idea of "good and bad" is completely based on Christian morals which makes the whole thing so funny.
    Case in point: western atheists think suicide and death is horrible whereas Asian cultures historically have never shied away from executing and massacring hundreds of thousands and people honorably killing themselves, which is forbidden in the Bible.
    Same thing with all the other Christian moral issues that sprang up in the 19th and 20th centuries that atheists can't seem to let go of like age of consent and workers rights.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      I thought of another idea I wanted to use to elaborate on this:
      Take for instance the suicide nets outside of Chinese sweatshop factories
      They are a microcosm of atheist morality.
      Ask yourself, why are the suicide nets there? It is not because the company feels religiously and morally objected to suicide, but because they don't want to deal with the consequences of more of their workers committing suicide by jumping out the window. They don't think to address the conditions in their hell hole sweatshop that are causing people to kill themselves, they simply don't want to be known as the #1 suicide factory (of which there is rabid competition throughout China) and don't want to lose workers and have to hire more while losing reputation and potential new workers. This is the kind of morality you get from an atheist society like China, which has historically never cared about suicide, because prohibitions against suicide are primarily an Abrahamic proscription.
      A western Reddit atheist would look oh this and go "oh the humanity" not realizing if he were born in China and grew up with the lax attitude toward suicide there he also wouldn't care that much. However, being born in a formerly majority Christian society he hangs on to these morals not realizing he is basically a secular Christian moralist outside of a few issues like putting your dick in a man's anus (which the entire left only champions because it is a rejection of the Christian society they are rebelling against).
      Tl;dr an atheist would believe he can have good morals in being born into any society or time period (same reason why they can't understand why people before 1960 didn't have a 1:1 exact replica of their moral compass due to the differing time period and lash out at historical figures as if they lived in the 2020s) when in fact they just follow what morals society milds them to and their heckin conscience isn't worth shit. Christianity, however, gives a solid unchanging moral code

  21. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    As opposed to what?
    Do you think punishment is a good idea to have? Your option is to remove it and allow the psychopaths you claim are so common to be liberated from the one thing stopping them.

  22. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    It’s not wrong.
    Why shouldn’t you act in a way of net benefit?

  23. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    No, there's nothing more pathetic than being a tradlarper

  24. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >no you can't be religious
    >because you just can't okay
    I accept your concession

  25. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Im Christian sland even i can tell this is terrible argument
    >How is it possible that it doesn't occur to them that under their materialist worldview, the explanation for morality is that it is an evolved instinct?
    They do, it is mentioned all the time.

    >The atheist avoids immoral action either because he is afraid of the social consequences, or he is a slave to his evolved capacity for guilt.
    From this point of view even wanting to sit down on a chair after a run is slavery

    >Under atheism, from a purely first person perspective, if you can avoid getting caught, and avoid feeling too guilty, you are well advised to screw over everyone you can, to your own benefit. "But muh social cohesion" the fitness benefit your genes will enjoy from psychopathic behaviour is much higher than the fitness cost they endure from the minimal impact on "social cohesion" that such behaviour will produce.
    Psychotic behaviour is dangerous to the individual. There is a point where purely self serving behaviour fails to be self serving. Someone who is always messing up social cohesion and being a psycho would hust get kicked out of the group by other cavemen.

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