Sunni or Shia, who is theologically and historically correct? >I think both got a few things right

Sunni or Shia, who is theologically and historically correct?
>I think both got a few things right

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  1. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Well, the Sunni won the numbers game.

  2. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Shia, because of the Ghadir Khumm

  3. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Shia on both. Theologically Sunnis treat the Quran as another god.
    >b-but the twelver demigods
    Better a person than a fricking book.

    Historically their attitude is illustrated with the following

    >Al-Qurtubi said:

    >it is not permissible to attribute any deliberate mistake to any of the Sahaabah, because they based all their actions on what they believed was right and proper, and their intention was to Allah, may He be glorified and exalted. They are all examples for us to follow and Allah has instructed us to refrain from discussing the disagreements that arose among them, and we should only mention them in the best way, because of the sanctity of their being Companions of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), and because the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) forbade reviling them; moreover, Allah has forgiven them and told us that He is pleased with them. End quote. "Tafseer al-Qurtubi, 16/321 "

    >ibn Abi Zayd al-Qayrawaani said, when discussing what the Muslim is obliged to believe about the Companions of the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and what should be said about them: No one of the Companions of the Messenger (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) should be mentioned except in the best of terms, and we should refrain from discussing the disputes that arose among them. They are the most deserving of people to have their words and actions interpreted in the best manner and to be thought of in the best terms. End quote.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      It is weird that this was just accepted as is. The whole thing was a bloody mess and filled with disputes, family rivalries, nepotism. The very fact that his grandson was beheaded just for being his grandson exposes this attempt to hide something awful that was going on. I don't necessarily see how that would mean the Shia version is completely correct, but they at least don't sugarcoat islamic history when clearily there was bad actions and bad intentions.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      Also, why the cope? How is their sanctity part of theology? Sunnis are the ones claiming that the Shias have made politics into religious doctrine, yet the Sunnis literally ascribe disbelief to those who criticize members of that era.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      >moreover, Allah has forgiven them and told us that He is pleased with them.
      Basically an admission that this is bullshit

  4. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Salafists forbid music and as a hater of music, I think it's based

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      Sunnis don’t allow sex change

      Iran bans music

      From a theological standpoint, the Shia make the more logical claim, and the hadith are (less) outrageous

      Shia have ten times the Hadiths Sunnis do

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        >forbid music
        [...]

        No soul.
        Gotta go with Sufi bros.

        >Iran bans music
        Stop spreading lies, you stupid fricking homosexuals. Iran routinely has concerts from singers like Shahram Nazeri and Shajarian.

        ?si=11V6Th4QbwbrrKvH

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      >forbid music

      Sunnis don’t allow sex change

      Iran bans music

      [...]
      Shia have ten times the Hadiths Sunnis do

      No soul.
      Gotta go with Sufi bros.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      Suit yourself. I’m a guitarist wouldn’t want you to hear my shit anyways, sandmonkey

  5. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    From a theological standpoint, the Shia make the more logical claim, and the hadith are (less) outrageous

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      >the hadith are (less) outrageous
      twelver hadiths contain some very weird stuffs (the kurds being likened to jinns is one of them), not to mention that one of the main narrators got called a liar by jafar al-sadiq (ra). zaydis however have much better claims, their hadith collections from the ahlul-bayt are mostly authentic and don't differ much from the sunni ones

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        >ahlul-bayt are mostly authentic
        >don't differ much from the sunni ones
        lmao

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          have you seen zaydi hadith compilations?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            I'm just laughing at your post which is that this group is more authentic because they're closer to you

  6. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    there's no such thing as "theologically correct," and history itself is nebulous

  7. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Sufi dervishes, men devoting themselves to god only, so that god does the same, tree roots seeking nutrition from the deep wells, the progenitors of european chivalry, are the only right path for a devout man

  8. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Be in Muslim country
    >Ask acquaintance, "What is the difference between Sunni and Shia Islam, anyway?"
    >"Sunni is real Islam and believes in Muhammed. Shia are fake Muslims that don't don't believe in Muhammed and they kill people for no reason."
    >"Okay, what about Sufi Islam?"
    >"They are fake Muslims."

  9. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Iranian cinema like Majid Majidi's Color of Paradise and Abbas Kiarostami's Taste of Cherry isn't bad either.

  10. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Be a muslim
    >Bann all forms of idolatry
    >Worship a fricking rock and create an elaborate fiction around it how it's supposedly "Gods" with no proof of it, then refuse others to try and examine it.

    Anyone who has two working braincells will reject institutionalized Islam right then and there. The issue with Islam is that it is an institution before it is a faith, the very fact that it was made like that reeks of psychopaths coming together in order to create a perfect slave cult.

    It's why they get them early too. Bann mandatory Quran school for smol childrens, and the faith literally dies right there and then.

    But to be fully real, I think that it's been rewritten and subverted in similar vein to Christianity. Between all the SteppeBlack person invasions, Persian Entryism and Turkroaches fricking shit up, no way they didn't revisit. Hadith's are a meme, yet they're given tons of power as well. It's all a damn mess.

    The time has come to expand the desert trilogy into a "quartet"

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      Ok calm down brainlet. It situates a direction, not the object of worship. People lining in up in the mosque don't worship the row in the front of them. Really? That has to be explained?

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      I love how you're just straight up lying, pretending your mouthvomit of a post is real and valid, and then getting angry and justifying a racist rant with it, how are people like you allowed into Oyish?

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      This doesn't read like lies or falsity.
      The line that speaks clear is "Ban Quran school for kids and the religion dies."

      It is wrong to groom children into religions or ideologies.

  11. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Sunni or Shia
    I have nothing to contribute except work for jannies

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous
  12. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    which way western man?

  13. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Both in the wrong for abandoning Hubal.

  14. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >inserts your schismatic prophet into the 8th circle of hell being ripped apart as allegory for failing to appoint successor and causing divide between sunni and shia, and depicts the hell city of Dis as decorated with mosque domes

    nothing personnel kid

  15. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Won't talk about theology, but if we even use sunni sources, it would suggest that Ali was the rightful successor. Even in the sunni ahadith, they say that Ali was upset by Abu Bakr because he had not consulted the family of the prophet regarding succession, and refrained from pledging allegiance for 6 months. Keep in mind that this is from sunni sources. Considering that sunnis revere Ali, doesn't the question arise why such a wise and pious companion would withhold allegiance for 6 months if he approved of Abu Bakr as a successor? If he was only upset about not being consulted, wouldn't he put his feelings aside and recognize Abu Bakr as the rightful successor if he really was the rightful successor? Then there is also the fact that according to Sunni sources, Fatima remained angry with Abu Bakr until her death.

    I grew up in a Sunni family, and something else that always bothered me was the Calamity of Thursday. In Sunni sources, it is narrated that the Prophet on his deathbed wished to impart upon us a knowledge that would save us from going astray, but Umar started arguing and in the end, nobody provided a paper to the Prophet and he angrily sent them away. I don't see how this is defensible. Again, keep in mind that this is how the story goes according to Sunni sources. Apart from the fact that it is a tragedy that we lost the chance to receive profound knowledge, it doesn't make sense to me that someone who argued with the Prophet like this (there are other instances as well) was more worthy of the caliphate than Ali.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      There is definitely some inconsistencies when it comes to the sunni version. Take the issue of caliphate and how it happened historically,. Randomly agreeing to Abu Bakr in a sort of random assembly of somewhat random men. Omar appointed by the Caliph. A council of 6 men appoing Uthman. Ali gets popular support and request his leadership. Meanwhile Muawiya refuses his leadership.

      Sunnis will say shias blaspheme for rejecting the fjrst 3, but say radiallahu on Muawiya, the rejector of the 4th. Apparently Ali was accepted as a rightly guided only later on, and he wasn't included in the sunni schools. Someone can clarify this point.

      I also have noticed a hidden disapproval among sunnis of anything praising Ali. They seem to hate hearing about his qualities, but will keep spouting on the other guys night and day. The quote saying that the hypocrites will be known by their hate of Ali is telling.

      My issue with the shia is the concept of imamah as a divine position. I dunno, seems like an exageration, a sort of response to the overall dismissal of the lineage of the prophet.

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Sunnis will say shias blaspheme for rejecting the fjrst 3, but say radiallahu on Muawiya, the rejector of the 4th.
        Yes, this always bothered me and it's one of the reasons I had to conclude that the Sunni approach to the early Islamic history is flawed

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          and the calamity of Thursday showcases the lie that piousness was the trait of the majority. This idea that somehow the majority is in error except for this ummah is really weird. The Quran says the majority are in error in all previous scriptures and times as almost a constant due to human nature, but we are to suppose we are special and any different.

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Someone can clarify this point
        It was popularized by Ahmad ibn Hanbal
        >My issue with the shia is the concept of imamah as a divine position
        The caliph was originally similar to this in the umayyad era. The position of Caliph grew weaker as the years went on in yhe Abbasid caliphate.
        I suggest reading Patricia Crone's God's Caliph book.

  16. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    They both believe in a false god and a false prophet, and consequently neither is right. In an ideal world no human being would experience private religious feelings. In this way, we would cease quite literally to be human, and thereby become better in that we are better in the truth of the reality of the nonexistence of god. That is the way that things ought to be.

    The human impulse to religion is not a validation of the goodness of religion, as is usually said. Exactly the opposite is the case. It is rather a fundamental flaw in the human which is to be overcome, and not accomodated. Nor is it acceptable to admit a lie of a god for the purposes of promoting psychological well-being, because a lie anywhere threatens all truth everywhere. That is why the idea of god must be put down everywhere. The existence of the idea of god is itself the reason of much of the suffering the world. Some call it communism, others, money.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      >religion nooo
      Go away

  17. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >I want simple answers for extremely complex and nuanced questions, NOW

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      >nothing.exe
      kbro

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      The simple answer is that Muhammad made it all up, there's no truth here, and none of the Companions or Muhammad's family actually believed this garbage. It was all just a cynical power grab. I mean, come the frick on: Muhammad says that THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE told him that Ali should succeed as Popeking of Islam. No one who actually believed what Muhammad was saying would go against that. What did his family and companions do?

      Completely fricking ignore what he said.

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        There are quite a few quranic verses regarding the majority of people not believing prophets when they are sent to their nation. So this idea that people would abandon what was told to them is nothing unexpected.

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Muhammad says that THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE told him that Ali should succeed as Popeking of Islam
        source?

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