Q for destiny in islam and Christianity:

So since the god is omniscient and knows everything that going to happen, how there can be a free-will for the humans? If i'am going to hell or heaven, god already knew this. so what was the point of creating me then?

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  1. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    Omniscience implies that God knows everything. It does not imply that God wills everything or that God necessarily wills some particular thing. So God can know that you’re going to sin, but that doesn’t mean God wills you to sin. You can ask then why does God allow for creatures with the capacity to sin exist in the first place. That is basically a question of free will. If you didn’t have free will, you wouldn’t be made in God’s image. You would necessarily be an unwilling automaton and asking this question would be silly. If it’s not a question of free will, but rather a question of why God allows a world where evil and all very not good bad things can exist, this is a silly question for reasons that really should be obvious.

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      How is god's will is even relevant to my question?

      If god already knows about my future, then i don't have a free-will and everything that happens is predestined to happen. Simple.

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        Because God can know a thing will happen but if God doesn’t will it to happen then then he’s not making it happen. Christians claim God is omniscient and omnipotent, meaning he knows everything and can do anything, but they don’t claim he is omniwilling, meaning he wills anything, and they don’t even claim he wills you to do a thing other than what he wills you to do yourself. So when you sin, God doesn’t make you sin. At most, he merely allows you to sin. It doesn’t make sense then to say that because God allows you to sin, that you don’t have free will. There’s nothing that limits free will as the result of God’s allowing you to do something. In fact, it implies exactly free will.

        It’s a simple argument. If I know you’re going to rob a bank, I didn’t make you rob the bank. You still robbed the bank on your own regardless of what I wanted you to do. It makes no sense to say I limited your free will just because I knew you would do something.

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          Christians believe that God willed your creation, but your creation includes the willing of your free will as a part and parcel with your creation. If God willed creation, and creation includes free will, it can’t logically follow then that by creating you God inhibited your free will.

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          this also answers theodicy.
          God allows you agency, in keeping with free will;
          humanity's misuse of it is what led to the fall and keeps the world steadily getting worse.

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            Until the covenant with God per Christ, the new Adam, is restored, yeah.

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            >this also answers theodicy.
            you mean the problem of evil? theodicy is vindication of god

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          he doesn't will you to not will the wills willed to be willed by your perceptive limitation as the plethoric *passivity* of his unfolds.

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            in response to

            https://i.imgur.com/mae17bT.png

            So since the god is omniscient and knows everything that going to happen, how there can be a free-will for the humans? If i'am going to hell or heaven, god already knew this. so what was the point of creating me then?

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      prescience does not equal predestination.
      in every moment of time, you freely choose any choice you had to make.

      you're misunderstanding God and time; it isn't a set line He peers into.
      God is outside of time, and "everywhere" in that metaphorical line.
      so, He knows because He saw you make the choice.

      to try to simplify, God knows your choice because you chose it.
      it isn't a choreography you're certain to follow.

      fpbp.

  2. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    there isn't xD

  3. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    Not a theist, but William James' take on determinism might help illustrate how theists see things.

    Basically imagine a novice chess player and expert chess player playing the game. The novice is white and goes first, and the universe is black and goes second. White is free to make any move they want, albeit within certain parameters. Black knows all the possible moves, and how to respond accordingly. Black thinks out the entire game before actually playing it, leading it to a certain end but not yet knowing 'now' all the steps.

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      this idea removes omniscience.

      it's more an idea of God knows every move you do before because He is seeing all the moves made.
      this did not change your choice, nor made it certain that you'd play them.

  4. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    Free-will can be created from ignorance. If a person doesn't know the outcome they can act irrationally and therefore remain free.
    Pure reason is making the same decision regardless of preference, for example never gambling because of how the games are set up.

  5. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    These answers are mostly wrong. God does not know what you’re going to do. He knows every possible thing that could happen given every possible choice. That’s why in the Bible God gives people CONDITIONAL promises: if you do this, this will happen, but if you do this other thing, then this other thing will happen. He knows what you’re likely to do and what you’re thinking about doing, but you are a free agent.

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      >God does not know what you’re going to do.
      Then he isn't omniscient. An alternative is every choice is chosen so saying God knows what you would choose is meaningless, he knew you would choose it all. He knew that the version of you that has chosen x would exist among others.

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      This is nothing but multiverse conjecture, but with religion instead of Rick and Morty. It would be too difficult and costly to create a copy of the universe for each and every variation throughout time.

      A choice: "The great king will either send his armies home and have eternal peace, or conquer the world!"

      The god would have to build two versions of reality for both choices, in order to actually know that these possibilities exist.

      In other words, you are assuming that God would not have to go through the necessary logical steps to figure out every possible choice. You are implying that he "Just knows," and there is no means for his knowledge.

      No, for him to KNOW, he would quite truly need to actually run a computer simulation that's 100% true to life, and thus IS life, or he would need to actually create a double of the universe. Otherwise, he would not have perceived, and he would not have known.

      The cost is too great. Creating a new universe for every possible choice every possible person could ever make would result in nigh-infinite universes, and in the context of theology, nigh-infinite souls, which would quickly put a strain on the resources in heaven and hell.

      You could play a cop out and say, "BUT INFINITE POWER GOD!"

      But that's just a cheap tactic that doesn't really defeat my logic. I've called it now, so let's not even go there. If you can rebut me, then rebuttal me proper.

  6. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    there's no answers: it's cope, apologetics, and turtles all the way down

  7. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    Los actos que enfrentan a la duda
    de qué hacer presente en lo real
    escogen un camino cuando este se bifurca:
    tal es la potencia de la humana libertad

    Encuentros sorprendentes de sentido
    hacen ver que está escrita la canción
    con sus ritmos y armonías para todo lo vivido
    Necesario cumplimiento, predestinación

    Debe haber una llamada, una voz
    que susurra muy suave a todo el mundo
    dónde ir. Ese día nos habló a los dos
    Proseguimos la aventura hacia el futuro
    Los detalles entretejen claroscuro
    Nada temas. Lo dispone el Creador

    (translation)

    The acts that confront doubt
    of what to make present in reality
    They choose a path when it forks:
    such is the power of human freedom

    Surprising encounters of meaning
    they show that the song is written
    with its rhythms and harmonies for everything experienced
    Necessary fulfillment, predestination

    There must be a call, a voice
    that whispers very softly to everyone
    where to go That day he spoke to both of us
    We continue the adventure into the future.
    The details weave chiaroscuro
    Fear nothing. The Creator provides it

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