>Paul's letters precede the four gospels by literal decades

>Paul's letters precede the four gospels by literal decades
Did Paul make christianity up to satisfy his shizo desires? Christbros....

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  1. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    There was no Paul, he didn't exist.

  2. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    but then who wrote those letters?

  3. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    There were other Christians at the time of Paul but the cult was a mystery cult based on people having visions of a magical israelite. Paul never mentions a historical Jesus unambiguously and outright states that you can only know Jesus by having visions.

    Here's an absolute workshop on Paul by two brilliant scholars.

    ?si=yvJx2qpzapohV0PX

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      Wait, so paul thought the whole crucifiction thing didn't actually happen?

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        Paul says almost nothing about Jesus. Most of his letters concern are political squabbles with other cult leaders. He makes a vague reference to a crucifixion that might have believed happened in the sky.

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          >might have believed happened in the sky.
          It's over

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            There's inter-testament literature that has this like the Ascension of Isaiah.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Richard Carrier

    • 6 months ago
      Ο Σολιταίρ

      Paul says almost nothing about Jesus. Most of his letters concern are political squabbles with other cult leaders. He makes a vague reference to a crucifixion that might have believed happened in the sky.

      >paul's letters make reference to gospels
      They don't though. Paul is explicit that Jesus can only be known by having visions or reading secret messages in the scripture.

      >For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
      >And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
      >And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
      >After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

      >For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
      >And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
      >After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

      From 1 Corinthians, widely held to be authentic. Authored by Paul.

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        >of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
        Does this mean that a significant proportion of the witnesses of the resurrection had died by this point, or just didn't care/buy it?

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          I think it's pretty clear. Most are alive, but some have died.

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        But in your opinion it was written before or after the Gospels?

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          Before, of course. It's not even really a debated topic. Is there any Biblical scholar with a believable argument for the Gospels being written first? Seems like pretty much all of them agree that Paul's letters were written first.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            So how does he reference something in the future as if it were in the past?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            It was passed around orally.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            I don't think you got my question. I meant how could Paul reference the Gospels if they were yet to be written. Was he lying?

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Paul never mentions a historical Jesus unambiguously
      He talks about disagreements he has with the brother of Jesus. That's pretty unambiguous.

  4. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Luke-Acts was written by Josephus, we know that much.
    The others still remain to be discovered. It's all very suspicious though.
    >Be serious about your faith
    >Don't preserve any books
    >Don't write down anything about Jesus as its happening

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      The first apostles proclaimed the same gospel. It wasn’t until ~65 A.D. when John Mark wrote it into a book form. John Mark was a disciple of Paul and Peter, and it’s widely accepted that the gospel of Mark is what he heard from Peter.
      Books were expensive to make and it didn’t make sense for the earliest church to distribute the gospel that way.

      No he didn’t.

      [...]
      [...]

      >For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
      >And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
      >And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
      >After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

      >For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
      >And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
      >After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

      From 1 Corinthians, widely held to be authentic. Authored by Paul.

      I can’t remember what the context of the second passage is, but I know the first one. Paul is writing about the appearances of the Jesus after his crucifixion to provide evidence for the Corinthians that Jesus was resurrected, and therefore there is life after death and that there will be a bodily resurrection. This doesn’t fit your argument.

      • 6 months ago
        Ο Σολιταίρ

        >doesn’t fit your argument.
        I'm Solitaire, not OP.
        Maybe being a namegay ISNT worth it when I'm still confused for other posters

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        While he didn't write it, you have to admit the similarities are definitely there.

        Luke-Acts seems like a bit of a larp, where someone wanted to pass off Christianity as the Essenes to the unknown reader. He basically used Josephus like Wikipedia.

  5. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Source?

  6. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >paul's letters written before gospels
    >paul's letters make reference to gospels
    ???? is christianity just one big scam?

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      >paul's letters make reference to gospels
      They don't though. Paul is explicit that Jesus can only be known by having visions or reading secret messages in the scripture.

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        where does he say that? he never said that

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        Oof. That's pretty damming.

  7. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >itt

  8. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    There's plenty of writings that relate back to some figure called Jesus, so something clearly happened to spur on Jesusite cults to start popping up in israeli communities.

  9. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Decoding Paul's View of Jesus: Mere Man or Pre-Existent Angelic Being?

    ?si=IoLr_-JhKjSR1JFi

  10. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Entire tradition in the classical world was based on direct teaching.
    >THEY DIDN'T IMMEDIATLY WRITE IT DOWN111!

  11. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Jesus just didn't think it through right the first time and realized he needed another apostle after he died and left earth
    Totally plausible and not at all like pulling a Joseph Smith or Mohammed.

  12. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Did Paul make christianity up to satisfy his shizo desires?
    Probably yes.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      But Paul started out killing Christians and was a well-respected member of israeli society who had a bright future.

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