Is there any truth to the stoner claim that psychedelics influenced religion? If so to what extent?

Is there any truth to the stoner claim that psychedelics influenced religion? If so to what extent? Are Pagan religions more influenced than Abrahamic ones?

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  1. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    I'd say it might've had some influence on religion, but that influence overall is greatly overstated. Religion is a complex series of social rituals that have many different origins. Anthropologist George Gmelch argued that certain religious rituals come from our need to control uncertain situations, he wrote a thesis on this where he uses baseball rituals as an example

  2. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    I've seen claims that a lot of importance placed on honey in ancient society is because honey is a really good medium for preserving psychedelics.
    I'm not convinced. Has anyone ever replicated psychedelic mead like these people claim?

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Has anyone ever replicated psychedelic mead like these people claim?
      Mead is just water and honey left to sit out in the sun, its incredibly easy to make, and I've even made my own, which is why its probably the first alcoholic beverage humans began making. As far as mixing it with psychadelics goes however, I'm not so sure about. On paper it would make sense, honey is naturally antibiotic do to its high sugar content, so it would make for a good substance for preserving some items, but its not perfect, while its antibiotic, fungus thrives in honey, which includes yeast (great for the whole mead making thing) but also certain molds.

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        Also that psilocybin (the active chemical in mushrooms) is very fragile. I can't imagine it'd hold up in any meaningful way in the mead brewing process.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      Never heard anyone claim that psychedelic mead was a thing, but the actual idea is that mushrooms were preserved in honey, and as gradual climatic shifts caused the mushrooms to grow less and less, the honey was eventually discovered to be fermentable leading to the rise of mead as the drug of choice.
      Check out Terrence McKenna's book "Food of the Gods" for more on this. Its pretty wild, but I find it very interesting

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        >but the actual idea is that mushrooms were preserved in honey, and as gradual climatic shifts caused the mushrooms to grow less and less, the honey was eventually discovered to be fermentable leading to the rise of mead as the drug of choice.
        Interesting theory, but I also think it needlessly overcomplicates it. Again, you can make mead by simply mixing honey with some likewarm water and having it sit for a few days. Its not that big of a stretch to assume that ancient humans just sort of made it on accident at first. wild honey already contains natural yeast, sugars, and nutrients for the yeast, and has very little to no cellulose, meaning it'll never yeild significant amounts of toxic methanol, which makes it a very ideal homebrewing drink.

  3. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Of course there's truth to that statement. Entheogens are widespread and well documented and their existence are about as controversial as the existence of tables.
    The stoner/atheist claim that's controversial is that religion scripture is just someone relating their high. Which it probably isn't.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      In what way has it influenced, say, Islam?

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        Nizari isma'ilism remains the second largest Shi'ite sect after twelvers, and their (Real or imagined) history with hashish is pretty well known. Plus Islam is deeply connected to both Judaism and Christianity.
        I mean until the 13th century cannabis wasn't even considered khamr.

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          Can weed even be considered a psychedelic? I live where it's legal and have definitely over indulged with both smoking and eating far far too much edibles past any reasonable point when I was in my early 20's, and it's hard for me to consider it the same class of drug.
          Regardless, if we count weed, yeah it has very obvious religious relations in both pagan and abrahamic society. Heck, even after 700 years of the Egyptians trying to eliminate it from their society they still have a massive culture around it. And we can't forget the current king of morocco is openly a stoner.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            The issue is that if you exclude cannabis and you exclude alcohol and you exclude any milder drugs then you've also excluded much of the western tradition of drug use and your question becomes flawed at its premise. Obviously religions of the west and near east are going to be less influenced by drugs if you don't include the drugs that people in the west and near east used.
            The only distinct psychedelics that would have been available to that part of the old world until relatively recently historically speaking would have been mushrooms and ergot poisoning yourself. And while there have been speculations about deliberate ergot poisoning yourself (Chiefly with regards to Greek mystery religions) it's not substantiated. But mushrooms were definitely used by baltic, slavic and finnish people throughout much of history and were distinctly involved with religious rituals until the introduction of Christianity. The same is possibly true for the the Scandinavians but there are a lot of people who object to that.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            I'd consider weed more of a "euphoric" than anything else, its not exactly a stimulant or a depressant, it can be both. It can also be psychedelic but only in extremely high dodages.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            you have to consider that hashish can be taken orally which gives stronger and more psychedelic effects

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            I have taken it, as I said
            It's not really on par with psychedelics. I'd more compare the buzz to alcohol than a psychedelic

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          Also the word "Assassin" used to refer to an Islamic sect and literally translated to "Hashish eater"

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            أَسَاسِيِّين (ʔasāsiyyīn, “people who are faithful to the foundation [of the faith]”)
            Relative adjective (nisba) composed of أَسَاس (ʔasās, “foundation, basis”) + ـِيّ (-iyy).

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            This is a False etymology. The word "Assasin" is derived from حشّاشين (ħashshāshīyīn) and shares an etymology with حشيش (ḥashīsh). Later Arab scholars revised it to avoid association with drugs. The term "Hasheesh Eater" for mant centuries was a generic derogatory in the Arab speaking world for any person or group who was seen as radical or extreme in nature (the equivalent to modern people saying "That guy is crazy so he must be on drugs!")

            The term "Hasheesh Eater" was actually still in somewhat irregular use as late as the 19th century, being directly referenced as the title to Fitz Hugh Ludlows biography

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            And why couldn't حشّاشين have been applied to them as an intentional mockery of their ordinary name? It invites itself either way, and it is hard to imagine them using it as a self-designation.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >and it is hard to imagine them using it as a self-designation.
            Because it wasn't a self designation, thats how other contemporaries refered to the Nizari sect to differentiate them from the rest of the Nizari at the time

  4. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    The Ark of the Covenant was made of acacia wood

    Bark of the acacia tree, frequently mentioned in the Old Testament, contain the same molecules as those found in plants from which the powerful Amazonian hallucinogenic brew ayahuasca is prepared.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      Speaking of the Old Testament, the Holy anointing oil mentioned in Exodus 30 probably contained Cannabis originally

  5. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    It's just drug addicts coping.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      Don't think picking a few mushrooms ever influenced a religious vision?

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        Just a sour grapes moron that doesn't live in a state/country where these things are legal and is too socially moronic to make connections

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        Not him but magic mushrooms brought me back to Orthodox Christianity
        And before that one guy asks which Orthodox—I attend a GOARCH parish

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          That's interesting.
          I mean, same thing happened to me. But I'm curious how that happened to you

  6. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Are Pagan religions more influenced than Abrahamic ones?
    The burning bush was an acacia plant. They're super rich in DMT

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      No it wasn't. The bush that they claim is the burning bush at St. Catherine's Monastery is Rubus ulmifolius which is a blackberry bramble

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        What fricking scam artist could possibly claim they have a 3000 year old bush twig from Egypt?

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          thankfully that particular bush is extremely long lived and its possible to clone plants on top of that.

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        >A scam artist is selling THE bush and it happens to be a local genus despite the local plants at the actual mountain being DMT rich so it's JUST A FRICKING COINCIDENCE REEEEEEE
        I don't believe that moron has the bush. I don't think any of it is real but I don't believe that you can trust any sort of relic. They're tourist attractions.

  7. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Theres a difference between pagans and drug addicts larping as pagans

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      No there isn't. One is just a post hoc rationalization for the other.
      >Dude why do you smoke weed so often?
      >Duuh for Odin yeah thats it!

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      wouldn't pagans in general be pretty open to psychedelics? At least what we can see, the tengri and other siberian tribes use psychedelics ceremonially, scythians used marijuana and so did the norse. Aztecs and Inti used psychedelics.

  8. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Yes most shamans used psychedelics

  9. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Of course it did. humans have consumed psychadelic drugs for thousands of years. What other explanation could they have given their experiences, other than religious or magical experience?

  10. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Early Christian art is booming with Amanita Muscaria (back when they were a apocalypse cult).
    Later the church stopped using it and deemed the voices demonic.
    I can sort of understand it, the amanita demon has enticed me with riches and told me it wants to conquer the world as well (he's overall a good dude though).

  11. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    In this moment I am euphoric, not because of some phony god relijune but the magical herb called lsd (Lethargic Stoned Dope)

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      LSD definitely didn't influence old religions considering it was first synthesized in the 20th century

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        It's a semi-synthetic based on ergot.

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          While ergot contains LSA it also makes your limbs fall off

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