I'm agnostic, but I'm trying to understand what Christianity is about.

I'm agnostic, but I'm trying to understand what Christianity is about. The general idea of Christianity from what I understand is that Jesus payed the price for the sins of mankind in our place when he was sacrificed on the cross, this is called vicarious atonement. If we believe in him that is all we need to do to enter heaven, and God will not judge us for our earthly lives. Christ is essentially a "get out of jail free card". If I accept this free gift I'm saved and allowed into heaven, and if I don't I will burn in hell. Correct?

What If I'm an intentionally arrogant and abusive person who lives in sin. Will I still enter heaven no matter what? If being righteous is not a requirement, and the blood of Christ is enough then technically yes I can enter heaven even if I don't try to act more godly as long as I am a Christian. I can be as cruel as I want to be (to non Christians of course), and that will not make a difference in front of God since I was already saved. If this is the case, then Christianity is the easiest religion to belong to. I don't even have to make an effort, and in fact I can act as evil and mean-spirited as I want since "Only God is good", right? This makes Christians who insist on kindness in behavior essentially heretics for promoting works over faith, or trying to justify their faith with good works. "Faith alone" is enough right? My salvation will never be taken away from me no matter what I do as long as I remain Christian.

Paul briefly addressed this, but never answered the question. He avoided the question entirely:

Romans 3:8

"Why not say, as some slanderously claim that we say, “Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!"

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  1. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    No one wants to answer? Can I be confident that I will go to heaven if I convert to Christianity without needing to act righteously?

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Can I be confident that I will go to heaven if I convert to Christianity without needing to act righteously?
      The confident do not go to heaven, the humble do. And even if you die in faith, you must be painfully purified of any remaining sin before entering heaven, which means just by simple game theory you should live a pious life here on earth.

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        You can be confident and humble. Confidence, or otherwise internal assurance, is a fruit of clarity. The talking point that being assured, which is how some people use the word confidence, is a vice is foolish, I think. There is a criterion. If you follow the criterion, you should in fact not lack confidence or assurance.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Can I be confident that I will go to heaven if I convert to Christianity without needing to act righteously?

      No. You should expect that the opposite is the case.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      No one just ascends into heaven, and bypasses judgment. The purpose of being born again is to let God into your life through the faith in Christ. Once God is in your life, godliness in lifestyle will follow otherwise you don't truly believe.

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        Me and Jesus have very different personalities. He’s happy giving away all his money and being a passive virgin who loves everyone, not my thing.

    • 5 months ago
      Worker

      >Can I be confident that I will go to heaven if I convert to Christianity without needing to act righteously?
      Absolutely.

      The Bible teaches that it's not what we do that gets us into heaven, aside from believing on Christ.

      >But to him that WORKETH NOT, but BELIEVETH on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
      Romans 4:5

      We are saved by believing on Christ. Not by working.

      >Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
      Romans 3:28

      We are saved by faith in Christ, not by deeds of the law (which means trying to be righteous.

      >For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
      John 3:16

      When we believe on Christ, we have EVERLASTING LIFE. Everlasting means FOREVER – it isn't forever if you can lose it by being bad, or by not going to church, or by any other work of the law. Once you believe, you're going to heaven, no matter what. This is why Christ laid down His life for us as a sacrifice, so that by believing, our sins are taken from us, and we receive Christ's righteousness.

      >That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
      Romans 10:9

      Again, belief in Christ is all that is required.

      If you rely on your works to save you, then you're going to hell forever. You can never be good enough to earn heaven. But Christ was perfect (because He is God in the flesh), which is why we are guaranteed to go to heaven if we place our trust in Him. Whosoever believeth in him shall have everlasting life!

      • 5 months ago
        Worker

        Again, salvation is by faith alone. NOT BY WORKS – you are hellbound, along with every other false religion – if you're trusting in your own works to save you. Christ accomplished it all.

        >8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
        Ephesians 2:8-9

        NOT OF WORKS! It is by faith that we are saved. This is God's gift to mankind. And false religions and self-righteous people hate this message.

        >Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
        Titus 3:5

        It is not our own works of righteousness, but it is by God's mercy that we are saved by faith. When we believe we are sealed by the Holy Spirit.

        >28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
        >29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
        John 10:28-29

        Once you're saved, you are sealed. NO MAN CAN PLUCK YOU OUT OF CHRIST'S HAND.

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Paul briefly addressed this, but never answered the question. He avoided the question entirely:
        >Romans 3:8
        >"Why not say, as some slanderously claim that we say, “Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!"
        We shouldn't sin, because we're dishonouring God. We will also receive earthly punishment and will lose rewards in heaven for sinning.

        But if we do sin, then grace will abound. But we shouldn't do that, for the reasons I've mentioned.

        >>What If I'm an intentionally arrogant and abusive person who lives in sin. Will I still enter heaven no matter what?
        >Nobody in this thread will be able to answer this.
        The Bible answers this, friend. We are saved by belief in Christ, and nothing can make you lose your salvation.

        >For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
        2 Timothy 1:12

        Paul says that he is persuaded that God is able to keep those who have believed until the last day.

        >38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
        Romans 8:38-39

        And again, Paul states that nothing can separate us from the love of God. NOTHING.

        >And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
        Romans 11:6

        If salvation is by grace, which is it, then it is NOT OF WORKS. But if someone tries to make it into works, then they have rejected the grace of God. So believe, and receive the mercy of God, that is poured out on us by the Son, Jesus Christ.

        >No one wants to answer? Can I be confident that I will go to heaven if I convert to Christianity without needing to act righteously?
        You also might want to check out this guy's channel. Very informative, to-the-point videos.

        https://www.youtube.com/@OnoDiamante

        Worst tripgay in the entire history of the site

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          do you fear his bible quotes or something else

    • 5 months ago
      Worker

      >No one wants to answer? Can I be confident that I will go to heaven if I convert to Christianity without needing to act righteously?
      You also might want to check out this guy's channel. Very informative, to-the-point videos.

      https://www.youtube.com/@OnoDiamante

  2. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    Think of Christ's sacrifice as you getting a letter to visit some high brow party as long as you produce the letter to the guy checking if people had the letters. Now, this party has a dress code of a white cloth and a sash with some sandals. If you turn up to the party you can show them the letter, but if you don't have a white cloth and sash with sandals you're going to be turned away even though you had the card.

    You can believe in Christ and accept his sacrifice for mankind and your sins, but if you don't adhere to his teachings and try to match up to the expectations of you as laid out for humanity you're basically just saying you believe in God without really acting on that statement.

    Obviously you'll probably be thinking: "Okay, I'm a sinner for my entire life and I can just accept Christ and I'm saved" which is correct, but there's a major caveat in that you have to mean it and truly make an effort to stop your sinning. Take Saint Paul for instance. The man killed and persecuted Christians viciously before turning over a new leaf and following Christ; putting that life behind him and redeeming himself. It doesn't excuse what he did, but he made a conscious effort to do the best he could. Same deal with the thief next to Jesus, he asked for forgiveness and was welcomed into Heaven because he believed in Christ and knew what he did was wrong so he repented to Christ.
    >"Faith alone" is enough right?
    Faith without works is dead. James 2:14-26. Just because you believe in Christ doesn't mean you keep that to yourself considering you're asked to spread the Gospel. If you're the last person left alive who knows about Christianity and you don't try to tell others about Christ and then die, you have damned humanity. Sure, "faith alone" saves you, but it damns others.

    Now, this doesn't mean something like donating to the church or whatever (That's just one thing asked of you to keep the ministry going), it just means you have to practice what you preach.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Sure, "faith alone" saves you, but it damns others.
      So what you're saying is yes faith alone is enough, and being a good person is optional. I have my free pass to heaven no matter what, and I can act as evil as I want and still not be judged by God for it. I just want to make sure.

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        >and being a good person is optional
        It's not, because you're the guy turning up to the party without the outfit you were told to wear but have the letter with you. If you purposely were treating it as a "Get out of jail free" card then that's not being sincere about your repentance even in your deathbed as you only repented to "get out of jail free". Plus, your belief in Christ is insincere and you didn't even try to make amends or do right by people.

        Just because you got a letter to the party (Accepting Christ) doesn't mean they're gonna let you in unless you're also dressed the part (Asking for forgiveness and making a conscious effort to avoid sin).

        wrong.

        https://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/library/verses/id/2381/good-works-necessity-of-verses.htm

        Don’t be deceived. Sinners go to hell

        >wrong.
        You literally just gave me a link that quotes James 2:14-26.
        >Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, 'Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.'And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

        Also, everyone sins, that's literally humanity in a nutshell. Everyone is going to do it, but it's through God's forgiveness that we are given mercy as long as we are sincere about adhering to what we are asking for forgiveness. If this wasn't true then the thief on the cross would be sent straight to Hell when he died, and it would mean Jesus was lying to him because why exactly?

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          It doesn’t matter if constantly say “sorry God I won’t do it again.” If you continue to be a drunkard, or watch porn, or commit adultery, or homosexuality, or theft, etc. then you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. “Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven.” For broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many there be who enter therein, but narrow is the way that leads to heaven, and few there be who find it.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >“Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven.”
            Yeah, but they use that to support the faith alone argument since it's followed by, "not those who prophecy in my name or do many good works".

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. You have to make the conscious effort to stop and be sincere about it. I don't know how you got confused by that. Your works (Constantly doing the same sin) show that your faith isn't being adhered to.

            >Plus, your belief in Christ is insincere and you didn't even try to make amends or do right by people.
            I can sincerely believe that Christ died for my sins, and then still make no effort to be a better person.

            >
            Just because you got a letter to the party (Accepting Christ) doesn't mean they're gonna let you in unless you're also dressed the part (Asking for forgiveness and making a conscious effort to avoid sin).

            Now you're saying faith (the invitation) is not enough, and that you also need to be dressed the part (repentance and avoiding sin, therefore works).

            >and then still make no effort to be a better person.
            You can't, because then you're ignoring all of Jesus' teachings, particularly the Golden Rule. You're saying you believe and accept Christ then immediately do a 180 and start sinning effectively showing you believe in Christ just to say it for brownie points. Like quoted with Matthew 7:21-23, just because they say they believe in Christ doesn't mean they're going to Heaven.
            >Now you're saying faith (the invitation) is not enough
            I don't think you're grasping this. If you believe in Christ (The invitation) you are saved. If you die then and there you go to Heaven. If you proceed to then ignore anything a Christian who believes in Christ does (Not arriving with the appropriate dress code) then even though you say you believe in Christ you're just saying it for the sake of it, not because you truly believe it. You're showing the bellhop the invitation and he's standing there looking at you in a plastic bag with holes in it telling you to move along. Yeah, you've got a thing that says you're supposed to be able to go in there, but you decided not to listen to the dress code.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Then clearly what you're saying here is the only way to prove my faith is to be a good person. If I act evil, then I never had faith to begin with. I was only pretending to have faith.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            You prove your faith by acting like Jesus taught, which is literally being a good person, yes. Saying you believe in Jesus as you shoot up on meth and rob grandmothers your entire life only to die in that same state of mind just damns you. If you do that your entire life and then sincerely ask for forgiveness and repent on your deathbed, well that's between you and God on figuring out if you were sincere, but you would be forgiven then. That's the idea.

            Like I said, Paul used to kill Christians because of his israeli upbringing. As far as we know of israeli customs at the time he would be stoning and torturing them. He was one of Jesus' closest friends and spent the rest of his life actively repenting those acts sincerely and died a martyr.
            Peter literally betrayed Jesus and lied about knowing him to save his skin, but ended up being the rock to found Jesus' Church on. He also died a martyr for God.
            Thomas didn't believe Christ rose from the dead until Jesus popped in and made him touch his wounds. He also died a martyr.
            Despite this all of them were accepted by God despite their faults and forgiven.
            >If I act evil, then I never had faith to begin with. I was only pretending to have faith.
            How are you still not getting this? It's extremely simple. Just because you say you're a police officer doesn't mean you are one. You have to go to school, training, and actively keep up to date on the law. Just because you say you believe in Christ's sacrifice and that he did what he did doesn't mean you're adhering to what he preached, said to do, or avoiding sin. You're just saying it to say it.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            What do you think of someone like Sam Shamoun? He claims to be a Christian, he also acts like the anti-thesis of Christ. He does not speak like Jesus or the apostles, he does not act like them, and he's a known sinner (he beat his wife). He's also confident that he will go to heaven, despite his behavior because he's a "Christian". Is this guy really saved or will God judge him for not acting godly enough?

            When I think of a Christian, and how a follower of Christ's teachings is supposed to act I think of someone like James White, not Sam Shamoun who is an arrogant sinner.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Also, if he can be the antithesis of Christ and still go to heaven why not me? All I need to do is convert to Christianity, and then I can be as much of a douche as I want as long as I fight for the truth.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >and he's a known sinner (he beat his wife)
            Did he repent and actively change his lifestyle? Then yes, he will be allowed into Heaven provided he lives a righteous life. If he's a dickbag who refuses to repent then that's not living a Christian life, that's saying you believe in Christ's sacrifice and that's it. That's not respecting God.

            Also, if he can be the antithesis of Christ and still go to heaven why not me? All I need to do is convert to Christianity, and then I can be as much of a douche as I want as long as I fight for the truth.

            >then I can be as much of a douche as I want as long as I fight for the truth.
            That's not how it works. You're saying you follow Christ in name only. That's like saying you're a Buddhist but you don't try to achieve Nirvana.

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Plus, your belief in Christ is insincere and you didn't even try to make amends or do right by people.
          I can sincerely believe that Christ died for my sins, and then still make no effort to be a better person.

          >
          Just because you got a letter to the party (Accepting Christ) doesn't mean they're gonna let you in unless you're also dressed the part (Asking for forgiveness and making a conscious effort to avoid sin).

          Now you're saying faith (the invitation) is not enough, and that you also need to be dressed the part (repentance and avoiding sin, therefore works).

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Just because you got a letter to the party (Accepting Christ) doesn't mean they're gonna let you in unless you're also dressed the part (Asking for forgiveness and making a conscious effort to avoid sin).

            Now you're saying faith (the invitation) is not enough, and that you also need to be dressed the part (repentance and avoiding sin, therefore works).

            *I messed up the greentext.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      wrong.

      https://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/library/verses/id/2381/good-works-necessity-of-verses.htm

      Don’t be deceived. Sinners go to hell

  3. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    >God has infinite time to design the perfect religion and he couldn’t even make it clear what we must do to enter heaven, and whether or not we have free will or if we’re predestined, and which denomination is true, and when Jesus will come back, and whether or not the afterlife is actually real or if it’s just a metaphor, etc. etc…

  4. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    >I'm agnostic, but I'm trying to understand what Christianity is about.
    It's about worshiping a magical israeli wizard so you can live forever trapped in a magic israelite castle in the sky when you're dead. It's dumb shit.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      as opposed to worshiping Odin so you can drink mead with him in Valhallah? how's that any less dumb, LARPagan-kun?

  5. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    There is the right way in the eyes of man, there is the wrong way in the eyes of man and there is God's way. Something might be cruel in your eyes, the eyes of your nation, the eyes of the entirety of man, to God it is correct.
    I thank God in the name of Jesus that he sets the captives free from the bondage of human morality and human ways. I thank God in the name of Jesus that he is not bound to these things, that he cannot be put in a box.

    Leave your morality, your entire worldview, leave everything you know, your dignity and sanity in the altar before God. I thank God in the name of Jesus that he is not a fool about these things.

  6. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    >I'm agnostic, but
    Stopped reading there. Are you agnostic about Spider Man or Oscar the Grouch?

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      I'm agnostic about everything coming from nothing, what does this have to do with Spider-Man? Biblical God aside, the idea of a prime mover is not something to just dismiss and tip your fedora to.

  7. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    If you believe, you’ll be saved.
    But if you plan on living a depraved lifestyle, don’t think God will let his temple be defiled without punishment.

    1 Corinthians 3:14-17
    14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
    15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
    16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
    17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

    1 Corinthians 6:19-20
    19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
    20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

    1 Corinthians 5:5
    To deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    Revelation 3:19
    19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

    Also read Hebrews 12.

  8. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    Romans 10:6-9

    The righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) or, “‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

    This can be used for the "faith alone" argument, but ultimately if you have faith you will be righteous. If don't act righteously, you are pretending to believe to "be above" others. God knows what's in your heart.

  9. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    You're working with an extremly westernized and legalized version of Christianity.

    >Christ is essentially a "get out of jail free card".
    If you view sin as a legal offense, yes. But it isn't a legal offense. It is a sickness. And Christ offers you a way to heal all of it. The healing is belief (as in a way of life, not mere intellectual belief).
    >What If I'm an intentionally arrogant and abusive person who lives in sin. Will I still enter heaven no matter what?
    Nobody in this thread will be able to answer this.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      >But it isn’t a legal offence
      1 John 3:4
      Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

      >Nobody in this thread will be able to answer this
      2 Timothy 2:13
      If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

      1 Corinthians 3:14-15
      14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
      15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

      1 Corinthians 5:5
      To deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    • 5 months ago
      Worker

      >>What If I'm an intentionally arrogant and abusive person who lives in sin. Will I still enter heaven no matter what?
      >Nobody in this thread will be able to answer this.
      The Bible answers this, friend. We are saved by belief in Christ, and nothing can make you lose your salvation.

      >For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
      2 Timothy 1:12

      Paul says that he is persuaded that God is able to keep those who have believed until the last day.

      >38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
      Romans 8:38-39

      And again, Paul states that nothing can separate us from the love of God. NOTHING.

      >And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
      Romans 11:6

      If salvation is by grace, which is it, then it is NOT OF WORKS. But if someone tries to make it into works, then they have rejected the grace of God. So believe, and receive the mercy of God, that is poured out on us by the Son, Jesus Christ.

  10. 5 months ago
    Worker

    >Paul briefly addressed this, but never answered the question. He avoided the question entirely:
    >Romans 3:8
    >"Why not say, as some slanderously claim that we say, “Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!"
    We shouldn't sin, because we're dishonouring God. We will also receive earthly punishment and will lose rewards in heaven for sinning.

    But if we do sin, then grace will abound. But we shouldn't do that, for the reasons I've mentioned.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      >will lose rewards in heaven for sinning.
      What does this even mean?

      >Correct?
      Pretty much yes
      >What If I'm an intentionally arrogant and abusive person who lives in sin. Will I still enter heaven no matter what?
      Yes, but God will chastise you on earth. Like a loving parent will punish you when you do wrong, but not just disown you throw you into an oven
      Hebrews 12
      5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
      6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
      7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
      8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
      >If being righteous is not a requirement
      It is. But it's by the righteousness of Christ, not our own. Like Lot is probably one of the lamest Christians in the Bible, but he is still called a just and righteous man.
      2 Peter 2
      7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
      8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
      >nd that will not make a difference in front of God since I was already saved.
      God will still punish you on earth, but not send you to hell. Like David committed adultery and murder. He was still punished by God on earth for doing so, but he didn't lose his salvation
      >then Christianity is the easiest religion to belong to
      Well God makes it easy to get saved, since he wants everyone to be, but that is (or at least should) be just the beginning of your Christian life on earth
      1 Tim 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

      Watch these two videos, he explains it well

      >Yes, but God will chastise you on earth.
      So I get a hand slap for being pure evil, but then still enter heaven forever without needing to be righteous at all?

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        >So I get a hand slap
        Hand slap compared to to going hell I guess. But God can make you lose all your relationships, health, and wealth, and might just kill you and take you home early. He has a few times killed saved people, but has never sent one to hell.
        >without needing to be righteous at all
        Like I explained
        It is. But it's by the righteousness of Christ, not our own. Like Lot is probably one of the lamest Christians in the Bible, but he is still called a just and righteous man.
        2 Peter 2
        7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
        8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
        Your righteousnesses are as filthy rags, it's only by the righteousness of Christ
        Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

        Also the Thief on the cross went to heaven, because by respecting and believing in Jesus he was repenting of his sin. Repentance is a "work" according to the faith alone crowd. Of course God forgives sincere repentance, but that's not what I mean.

        >Repentance is a "work" according to the faith alone crowd
        According to the Bible too
        Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
        Turning from your sin is work. Also the word repent just means to change your mind, not turn away from sin

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          >kill you and take you home early
          How is that a punishment if I'm being taken to eternal bliss in heaven?

          Also I'm saying the thief went to heaven, because he repented by believing in Jesus. This was a work.

          here, Anon

          How can you justify all the loopholes where faith alone could lead to abuse? I can have faith, and recite the oath that Jesus died for my sins like the guy in this video tells me to, but then if I go killing, raping, and stealing why should I be allowed into heaven? Also, clearly from this thread I noticed that not all Christians are unanimous in this "saved by faith alone" doctrine.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >How is that a punishment
            Because you still want to live on earth. I know I'm going to heaven but I'm not then just going to commit suicide
            Believing isn't a work
            10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

            here, Anon

            Based

            > can have faith, and recite the oath that Jesus died for my sins like the guy in this video tells me to, but then if I go killing, raping, and stealing why should I be allowed into heaven?
            I already answered that, so have other people
            Here's another good video explaining it

            >not all Christians are unanimous in this "saved by faith alone" doctrine.
            Did you just find that out? We're certainly a minority

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >We're certainly a minority
            Yeah, there's a reason for that. It makes no sense.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >It makes no sense.
            Why not? I'm guessing your OP, so how does it not make perfect sense?
            Believing God loves you but will disown you and send you to hell for the slightest mess up makes no sense.
            Like a good dad would punish his son if he caught him drinking booze. But he wouldn't then go throw him in a bonfire

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Believing God loves you but will disown you and send you to hell for the slightest mess up makes no sense.
            Where does God ever state he will throw you in hell for messing up once? It makes no sense, because God already establishes in the OT that you can repent and be saved. There was abuse of the OT law where Pharisees were acting self righteously, and Paul being a former Pharisee himself wanted to avoid that kind of religious hypocrisy so he came up with being saved by faith in Jesus, and not by righteous works? But now, that solved one problem, and created more problems. Now, righteousness is meaningless, and there is no difference between good and evil. It's just Christ was perfect, and we're all imperfect, and sin does not matter so accept the sacrifice or burn in hell.

            This guy's explanation makes more sense:

            First things first: nothing you DO on earth will get you to heaven. You cannot save yourself, only God can save. God alone has the power to forgive you. And there is nothing you can do to earn forgiveness, because there is nothing you can do to cancel out all the sin you have already committed. Someone has to pay for that crime.
            Fortunately, someone already did pay for that crime, retroactively and in perpetuity. That someone's name is Jesus, which is why people say "he died for our sins". By saying you believe in Christ's divinity, the value of his sacrifice, and his resurrection, you are essentially asking God, "May I please go to heaven?" That is the closest thing to "doing" something to achieve access to paradise. This is why protestants say "faith alone", because it is only through God's grace that you will be permitted into heaven. He will choose whether to answer your plea with a yes or a no, but there's a promise of a yes if you really mean it.
            And He will know whether you meant it; this is why emphasis is placed on works in Catholic doctrine, because faith can only be outwardly seen by works. A person who claims to have faith, but doesn't act on any of Christ's principles in the least fashion is clearly a hypocrite, which is why "faith without works is dead." The term "practice what you preach" comes to mind, as there is little else more revolting to God than a hypocrite. Good works don't earn salvation, but bad works can certainly earn you damnation. The only exceptions to this are deathbed confessions after a life of sin, because they (might) indicate a sincere change of heart, but if God finds your reasons for confession are purely mercenary, it's His prerogative to say "nah" to you.

            You need to start with the faith, and from there you need to live righteously as a way to express that faith. If you keep sinning on purpose then you never had the faith to begin with. Then there are no logical loopholes being exploited. You can't fool God.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            I view the NT as fixing the problems of the OT only if they don't create their own problems. So "faith alone" obviously can't work unless the faith is justified by works.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Where does God ever state he will throw you in hell for messing up once?
            It doesn't because it's wrong. That's my point.
            >so he came up with being saved by faith in Jesus, and not by righteous works?
            No? I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say. Jesus also taught it's by faith
            15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
            16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
            17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
            18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
            >If you keep sinning on purpose then you never had the faith to begin with
            Completely wrong
            14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
            15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
            16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
            17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
            18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
            19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
            20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
            Did Paul have no faith?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >gospel of John
            That was written way after the letters of Paul.

            I don't think your passage from Paul is referring to sinning on purpose just because you want to, and you're confident you're saved and going to heaven. That's more addressed in what I posted in the verse from the OP, Romans 3:8

            https://i.imgur.com/9UY2oLc.jpg

            I'm agnostic, but I'm trying to understand what Christianity is about. The general idea of Christianity from what I understand is that Jesus payed the price for the sins of mankind in our place when he was sacrificed on the cross, this is called vicarious atonement. If we believe in him that is all we need to do to enter heaven, and God will not judge us for our earthly lives. Christ is essentially a "get out of jail free card". If I accept this free gift I'm saved and allowed into heaven, and if I don't I will burn in hell. Correct?

            What If I'm an intentionally arrogant and abusive person who lives in sin. Will I still enter heaven no matter what? If being righteous is not a requirement, and the blood of Christ is enough then technically yes I can enter heaven even if I don't try to act more godly as long as I am a Christian. I can be as cruel as I want to be (to non Christians of course), and that will not make a difference in front of God since I was already saved. If this is the case, then Christianity is the easiest religion to belong to. I don't even have to make an effort, and in fact I can act as evil and mean-spirited as I want since "Only God is good", right? This makes Christians who insist on kindness in behavior essentially heretics for promoting works over faith, or trying to justify their faith with good works. "Faith alone" is enough right? My salvation will never be taken away from me no matter what I do as long as I remain Christian.

            Paul briefly addressed this, but never answered the question. He avoided the question entirely:

            Romans 3:8

            "Why not say, as some slanderously claim that we say, “Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!"

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >That was written way after the letters of Paul.
            Okay, but it takes place before
            >I don't think your passage from Paul is referring to sinning on purpose just because you want to,
            He literally says he is carnal and does what he hates

      • 5 months ago
        Worker

        >>will lose rewards in heaven for sinning.
        >What does this even mean?
        No one knows, but Jesus did talk repeatedly about greater rewards in heaven for our works.

        16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
        17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
        18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
        19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
        Luke 19:16-17

        We work for eternal rewards. We NEVER work to be saved or to prove that we're saved. Salvation is simply by belief.

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          So you get fewer virgins in heaven if you're not a good boy in this life?

  11. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Correct?
    Pretty much yes
    >What If I'm an intentionally arrogant and abusive person who lives in sin. Will I still enter heaven no matter what?
    Yes, but God will chastise you on earth. Like a loving parent will punish you when you do wrong, but not just disown you throw you into an oven
    Hebrews 12
    5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
    6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
    7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
    8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
    >If being righteous is not a requirement
    It is. But it's by the righteousness of Christ, not our own. Like Lot is probably one of the lamest Christians in the Bible, but he is still called a just and righteous man.
    2 Peter 2
    7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
    8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
    >nd that will not make a difference in front of God since I was already saved.
    God will still punish you on earth, but not send you to hell. Like David committed adultery and murder. He was still punished by God on earth for doing so, but he didn't lose his salvation
    >then Christianity is the easiest religion to belong to
    Well God makes it easy to get saved, since he wants everyone to be, but that is (or at least should) be just the beginning of your Christian life on earth
    1 Tim 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

    Watch these two videos, he explains it well

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      Also the Thief on the cross went to heaven, because by respecting and believing in Jesus he was repenting of his sin. Repentance is a "work" according to the faith alone crowd. Of course God forgives sincere repentance, but that's not what I mean.

  12. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    here, Anon

  13. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    First things first: nothing you DO on earth will get you to heaven. You cannot save yourself, only God can save. God alone has the power to forgive you. And there is nothing you can do to earn forgiveness, because there is nothing you can do to cancel out all the sin you have already committed. Someone has to pay for that crime.
    Fortunately, someone already did pay for that crime, retroactively and in perpetuity. That someone's name is Jesus, which is why people say "he died for our sins". By saying you believe in Christ's divinity, the value of his sacrifice, and his resurrection, you are essentially asking God, "May I please go to heaven?" That is the closest thing to "doing" something to achieve access to paradise. This is why protestants say "faith alone", because it is only through God's grace that you will be permitted into heaven. He will choose whether to answer your plea with a yes or a no, but there's a promise of a yes if you really mean it.
    And He will know whether you meant it; this is why emphasis is placed on works in Catholic doctrine, because faith can only be outwardly seen by works. A person who claims to have faith, but doesn't act on any of Christ's principles in the least fashion is clearly a hypocrite, which is why "faith without works is dead." The term "practice what you preach" comes to mind, as there is little else more revolting to God than a hypocrite. Good works don't earn salvation, but bad works can certainly earn you damnation. The only exceptions to this are deathbed confessions after a life of sin, because they (might) indicate a sincere change of heart, but if God finds your reasons for confession are purely mercenary, it's His prerogative to say "nah" to you.

  14. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    Jesus is our "get out of consequences of sin free" card, but we're then responsible for using His sacrifice to clean up our lives. Read throughout the book of Matthew for what Jesus taught on this. He repeatedly said we need to humble ourselves, repent, do the will of the Father, be faithful stewards of what God gave us and do work for Him, stay awake and watchful and soberminded, etc. Also look up the parable of the wise and foolish virgins, where the wise were prepared when it was time to awake, while the foolish were not prepared and ended up locked out (Matthew 25). Also also we're expected to clean our garments or else we'll get removed (Matthew 22, reiterated by parts in Revelation).

    Matthew 7:21-23
    “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, in Your name did we not prophesy, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

    Matthew 5:17-20
    “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    “For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      Matthew 22:11-14
      “But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes, and he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?’ And the man was speechless. “Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

      Revelation 3:4-5
      But you have a few names in Sardis who have not defiled their garments, and they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments, and I will never erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        When was the last time you sinned?

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          today, and i've repented. we can't attain full perfection until the ressurection, but "a righteous man falls seven times and gets back up"

          consider adam and eve. When they sinned, they hid from God and didn't walk with Him anymore. God searched for them and they had no good excuse, and there had to be punishment. But consider David, who committed many terrible sins, yet God forgave him and called him a man after His own heart. The difference is when David sinned, he didn't hide from God or stop seeking Him. Instead he humbled himself and sought God all the harder, repenting and breaking his own heart and spirit. He didnt make excuses or run away from God.

          With us and Jesus now, the moment we sin, we're supposed to confess it to Him and ask for forgiveness and to be cleaned from it. You can also ask for Him to help you not sin that way anymore. It begins a process of "sanctification" where as you walk with Jesus longer and longer, more and more of your heart gets purified by Him and you don't sin like you used to. You can lean into this process hard and even ask God to accelerate it, which comes with crazy situations and trials that begin to put you under pressure. The more you go through this though, the more you're able to hold to God's standards even in extreme situations. You can practice and sacrifice a lot learning to do this deeper, and many times God calls people to do this in order to be useable by Him in situations where most people would fall to temptation or to mental warfare. It's walking out trust between you and the Father so He will place you where He deems best for His work and glory.

          In any case, the worst thing to do as a Christian when we sin would be to run away and hide from God, or to think that God is unhappy with us and therefore we need to wait a couple days before trying to get right with Him again. God wants our heart immediately, which is why Jesus' sacrifice is so powerful. Immediate reconcilliation is possible through Him

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      Matthew 22:11-14
      “But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes, and he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?’ And the man was speechless. “Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

      Revelation 3:4-5
      But you have a few names in Sardis who have not defiled their garments, and they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments, and I will never erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

      Now this makes sense. If you're washed in the blood of Christ then it's God's will for you that you stay clean, and continue to repent if you don't stay clean. It's not like you can just accept the sacrifice that Jesus made, and then go be a serial killer, then still expect to enter heaven.

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        Good luck trying to be perfect 24 hours a day, 7 data a week - because that’s God’s standard.

        >For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

        >For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

        Don’t let your pride make you feel like you need to earn it. Don’t stumble on the simplicity of the gift of God in Jesus Christ.

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          Nope, I'm done with your faith alone nonsense. It makes no sense to me. First comes faith, then comes living righteously to justify that faith. It's not one or the other. Nowhere did I say "works alone". I said faith in Christ first, therefore not trying to impress God with any works, but then following the faith with a righteous life in order to not lose the salvation. And yes, I believe salvation can be lost. "Once saved always saved" makes no sense, unless you want to believe serial killers can rape and murder their entire lives, but it's okay for them to enter heaven because they were "saved" at one point.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            I looked it up, and this is the Catholic belief so I guess some Christians agree with me on this. If salvation is lost, it can be regained through repentance of course.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >then comes living righteously
            And we all fail. And again, Lot was called righteous even though the last time we hear of him he has drunken sex with his daughters. King Saul also got back slidden then killed himself and is heaven.
            >serial killers can rape and murder their entire lives,
            Well someone that's a reprobate won't ever believe because they were given over to a reprobate mind. And again, God can just take you home early. King Solomon also allowed wicked stuff to happen, and he's also in heaven.

            I looked it up, and this is the Catholic belief so I guess some Christians agree with me on this. If salvation is lost, it can be regained through repentance of course.

            Catholics are wrong on a ton of other obviously wrong things. Doesn't really prove anything

  15. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    the way I see it, the whole law still applies (Matthew 5:17-20). it's impossible for us to keep it perfectly, but we're expected to try and to seek God for help to get better at it. The whole point is to listen to the Holy Spirit instead of resisting the Holy Spirit. Jesus' blood makes it possible for us to get to heaven despite imperfect obedience. At the same time, we're expected to labor for God and be a faithful servant, making use of this freedom in order to increase God's glory and to help build His Kingdom (the people of God and their character). We're on a debt-relief work program, basically. But it's one which enables us to begin having the thing God yearned for all along, which is a people who listen to and obey His voice and learn to trust His voice.

    If God has our hearts, then He can purify every part of us over time. But if we instead resist Him knowingly and never repent, then we can't get closer to Him. Then there's a permanent impasse

  16. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

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