if islam forbids interest, how do muslim countries make money? how do their banks work?

if islam forbids interest, how do muslim countries make money? how do their banks work?

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  1. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    they ignore it

  2. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Most central banks and commercial banks don't care and just put interest anyway. There are some "Islamic Banks" in my country that allegedly work on "Islamic Principles" but I have zero idea how they work.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      don't most islamic banks just use usuary with extra steps aka you agree to lend money for a certain time and pay a certain cost for it, same if you had borrowed it a certain time with a certain interest

  3. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    They don’t.

  4. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    >if islam forbids interest, how do muslim countries make money? how do their banks work?
    That only applies if you are a Muslim lending money to another Muslim.
    Such a rule doesn't apply when lending to non-Muslims.

  5. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    On a similar topic, why is ursury no longer seen as bad in christian countrie? Modern capitalism?

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      what "christian countries"? all western nations are secular.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      There was a series of debates in the 1500s on that very topic

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Usury is like a game breaking glitch. Anyone who doesn't do it is willingly handicapping themselves.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        That's why it has to be prohibited. Money lending harms everyone, but more those who do not participate.

        >Somebody else would buy the tractor, who now can't afford it. Or some other machinery would get produced, which is now missing.
        I'm not sure I understand this part, why is another party prevented from buying comparable goods?

        >On the macroeconomic scale, loans produce nothing. They only disrupt the economy
        Well, think of it this way. A parent buys food, education, and shelter for their child. The child would not be able to afford these things on their own, but funds from the parent enables their development. In this case we will say the parent didn't "produce" any of those products or services. Why does that disrupt the economy? Should we only be allowed to use products we directly produce?

        Because the loan doesn't change how many tractors get produced, the farmer only was given a tractor that he couldn't afford. When you keep giving loans for tractors, you only drive the prices high, you won't produce more tractors. Even if it makes company more tractors, something else will be made less of.

        Do you have any idea what a liquidity crisis is?

        Yes, that's how banks call it when they go broke.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Because the loan doesn't change how many tractors get produced, the farmer only was given a tractor that he couldn't afford. When you keep giving loans for tractors, you only drive the prices high, you won't produce more tractors. Even if it makes company more tractors, something else will be made less of.
          Indeed economic growth is just a lie made up by neoliberals

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            It appears so.

            And how do you know someone with the money else would actually buy the tractor? is it better if someone in need of a tractor rents it from whoever has money to lease it out?

            Then the people, the factory, and the steel and so on would be used to make something else that somebody would buy. Loans never create anytjing of value, it's a sort of reverse whack a mole. What you add in one place gets lost somewhere else.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Then the people, the factory, and the steel and so on would be used to make something else that somebody would buy. Loans never create anytjing of value, it's a sort of reverse whack a mole. What you add in one place gets lost somewhere else.
            Let's discuss this last point a bit further, "gets lost somewhere else". It's true that only so much capital and labour exists. What is not true is that the investment of these resources is equal, as seems to be implied. Let's look at a scenario:

            100% of resources are invested in the horse industry
            Someone has an idea for something called a "car" and is loaned 5% to develop their idea
            The horse industry now only has 95%, but obviously that 5% loan is going to increase general wealth. It has not been lost, it has been reallocated.

            This is not a zero sum game.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          And how do you know someone with the money else would actually buy the tractor? is it better if someone in need of a tractor rents it from whoever has money to lease it out?

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      They just change the definition of what usury is. Usury used to be any interest at all, but now people say it means excessive interest, which is of course just a cop-out.

  6. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    they took the money to fund other economical project like opening shops funding factories etc.
    it's not like your regular bank use usury as the only source of income anyway.

  7. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    In practice they just charge service fees or accept religious "donations" from the lender. This might seem like just a semantic difference but the theory is different. A fee is charged for a service, a tangible action. Interest is money created from money, there's no human interaction involved which is why it's controversial.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >I will charge you $500 a month on this loan as interest
      This is terrible, ban interest
      >I will charge you $500 a month on this loan as a service fee, but provide identical service
      Much better

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        The way Muslims describe it is the most "pilpul" shit I've ever seen, but it's basically just interest - usually fixed rate - with a few extra steps: https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1915&context=ilj

        These guys are right on the money:

        They do use interest, they just redefine it (like israelites do) and pretend it doesn't count.

        In most countries, you buy the house with the money the bank loans you and then pay off the loan with the house as collateral. Halal lending is functionally no different, but the bank is considered to own the house, and you’re seen as partaking in a ‘rent-to-own’ sort of thing. So it’s technically not usury but functionally there’s no real difference, Muslims will never admit it but on some level they realized that advanced societies can’t function without some amount of usury.

        they give you an indirect fee and say its totally different

        This guy

        [...]

        is lying through his teeth. Islamic loans and financing are all about profit, unless those "fake Islamic banks" are 99.9% of Islamic banks.

  8. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    The problem woth usury isn't religious, nor the interest. The problem with usury is that loans don't create what is bought for the money, you arbitrarily increase one person's resources at the expense of somebody else. It buys something that somebody else won't be able to afford, even if they could afford it if the loan wasn't given. As the result, the effect of money lending on the overal wealth is negative, as the resources get misallocated.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >As the result, the effect of money lending on the overal wealth is negative, as the resources get misallocated
      A farmer wants to buy a tractor to harvest more crops, but he can't afford one
      A bank gives him the money to buy a tractor
      The farmer produces more crops and the bank gets a return for helping him
      Overall wealth is increased

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Yes, but you need to look at the economy at the biggest scale. The loan didn't produce the tractor. Somebody else would buy the tractor, who now can't afford it. Or some other machinery would get produced, which is now missing.
        On the macroeconomic scale, loans produce nothing. They only disrupt the economy.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Somebody else would buy the tractor, who now can't afford it. Or some other machinery would get produced, which is now missing.
          I'm not sure I understand this part, why is another party prevented from buying comparable goods?

          >On the macroeconomic scale, loans produce nothing. They only disrupt the economy
          Well, think of it this way. A parent buys food, education, and shelter for their child. The child would not be able to afford these things on their own, but funds from the parent enables their development. In this case we will say the parent didn't "produce" any of those products or services. Why does that disrupt the economy? Should we only be allowed to use products we directly produce?

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          Do you have any idea what a liquidity crisis is?

  9. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    They do use interest, they just redefine it (like israelites do) and pretend it doesn't count.

  10. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Islam created Interest in USD for its Banks.

  11. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    In most countries, you buy the house with the money the bank loans you and then pay off the loan with the house as collateral. Halal lending is functionally no different, but the bank is considered to own the house, and you’re seen as partaking in a ‘rent-to-own’ sort of thing. So it’s technically not usury but functionally there’s no real difference, Muslims will never admit it but on some level they realized that advanced societies can’t function without some amount of usury.

  12. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Ironically the only possobpe way to do away with interest is socialism so it's the atheist socialist coies who are closer to getting rid of it than anyone

  13. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    They charge a fee that by pure coincidence is exactly what the total interest would be. But because they call it a fee its not interest and therefore not usury. Banks in medieval Europe operated exactly the same way.

  14. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    bump

  15. 7 months ago
    Anonymous
    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Jerry, thats not interest that is stock market

      https://i.imgur.com/UVnXlUY.jpg

      if islam forbids interest, how do muslim countries make money? how do their banks work?

      They have interests in their central banks, lol, it is ok because al lreligious people are hypocrites when their religion do not conform them.
      Remember when it is only legal to have 4 wives but ISIS homies had like tens of sex slaves? Remember when it is haram to trade with mushriqin and munafiqun but ISIS actively traded oil with Assad Regime?

  16. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    I can't understand this question. It makes no sense. Do you think usury is the only way to make money or something? I've made plenty of money and I've never even given a loan to anyone.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      The system you made money in, its' currency, uses interest.
      Therefore by using the currency, you have participated in interest rates without acknowledging so. As long as your money stays in a bank and is not in gold/silver form of course.
      Or, unless you are in some country with no central banking system such as North Korea or Syria.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        I honestly think cryptocurrency is the future of Islamic currency. We should have never accepted western fiat

  17. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    they give you an indirect fee and say its totally different

  18. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >What is meant is that Islamic loans are based on trust and kinship instead of the possibility of profit
    if I get a loan from a bank, they will limit me to an amount I can reasonably pay back
    the bank itself will also have a range of useful options and services
    if I'm unable to pay back the loan, at worst I declare bankruptcy and I don't harm my friends and family
    regulated and impersonal

    the idea of getting a loan from a friend or relative instead of a business sounds very dangerous financially and emotionally, a veritable well of potential misery

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      I know how atomized you people are, but imagine trusting the israelite and central bank before your cousin or family. This can only be conceived as stockholm syndrome

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        There's a difference between "I trust my cousin is a good person" and "I trust we have the necessary knowledge and calculations to determine suitable loan sizes, terms, and repayments"

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >very dangerous financially and emotionally
        What is the function of family if not the help each other out, without regard for profit? Is this why the West kill babies in the womb? Because they get no profit off of it? We Muslims are closer, in custom, to your ancestors

        We have a saying over here, and we arent westerners.

        "Never loan from friends or family".
        It tends to turn into a clusterfrick, in the case of large sums.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >very dangerous financially and emotionally
      What is the function of family if not the help each other out, without regard for profit? Is this why the West kill babies in the womb? Because they get no profit off of it? We Muslims are closer, in custom, to your ancestors

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        if the goal is to help the family then why not expose others to risk instead of your own family?

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      The real reason its shit is that islamic countries with strong clan systems like Somalia are shitholes whose educated individuals massmigrate then sit here and post about how great their native religion and culture are

  19. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    How many does actually practice this?

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >How many does actually practice this?
      On the level of government, only the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. On the level of family, millions including my own. If the government isn't doing their Islamic duty, then the individual and their families will do their part

  20. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    They call interest "equity" and steal half of your company instead.

  21. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    i don't know about today, but iirc historically people would take out loans from rich merchants in exchange for paying higher prices for their goods in the future, which is effectively the same thing as interest, but technically legal

  22. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >Islam
    >Humanity-centric
    Lmao, Islam is just legalism and oppression, they literally call themselves slaves of Allah.

  23. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Not to actually answer the question but the bank buys the item for you and then you agree to pay them back plus int- SORRY, plus a service fee. So if a house is $300k, they buy it for $300k and then sell it to you for $400k, and you pay them back over a 30 year period.

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