If free will exists it means that your life can be made a living hell by other people if they will it to be so, not even God can even force them to st...

If free will exists it means that your life can be made a living hell by other people if they will it to be so, not even God can even force them to stop because "free will"

If free will doesn't exist and the universe is predetermined it means your life can be destined to be a living hell and you are utterly powerless to stop it

it's so fricking over
Any books for your existence being utterly fricked no matter what philosophy turns out to be true? Some kind of meta-philosophical pessimism?

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  1. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Retroactively refuted by Plotinus.
    Life precedes material existence. You are a divine being that is briefly piloting a flesh puppet.
    We're all gonna make it, anon! (If not here, then certainly in the celestial planes.)

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >he doesn't know that
      (n)gmi

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      I guess we should just all kill ourselves then, there's no point in being here unless you are living a really REALLY great life

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        This objection was already foreseen by the 5th century BC. Read the Gita. If you're a superior spiritual being, you are above this plane - killing yourself would be nonsensical since it would indicate aversion, which is incomprehensible from the perspective of a superior being piloting a flesh puppet. The inconveniences plague the body, not you - nor is the body itself an inconvenience to you.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          But that's not true. So then we are not superior beings cooly and detachedly piloting flesh puppets from being the 5th dimension, since we all feel aversion to at least some aspects of existence here, among other feelings that plague us.
          Or we are superior being piloting flesh puppets but we can still feel within this plane and, well once again, it sucks so why not just rush back home?

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Because the aversion that would push you towards "rushing back home" is a product of ignorance of your own true nature. A superior spiritual being does not "rush" anywhere, nor does it have reason to feel aversion to this thing or that thing. It is superior, therefore invulnerable to anything that would aim to harm it. We forget this fact only when we identify too strongly with the body and its troubles.
            I am not saying that it's always easy to keep perspective. Some people have really shitty lives. But our dignity is our birthright.

  2. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Butterfly fashioned herself as my sex slave while posting books like 'The Will and its own' again and again and jerk offd to me constantly :3

  3. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    you're free to break your chains and murder others if you know it's just you know
    or just like not care about them and do your thing lol

  4. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    >it's so fricking over
    Have you maybe entertained the idea that, while you can definitely try your hardest and still find yourself in hell, having such a defeatist outlook probably makes it easier for hell to find you?
    As far as recs go, read either stoic stuff or any kind of revenge porn, depending on your tastes.

  5. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Victim mentality.

  6. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Luckily we have guardian angels in both cases 🙂

  7. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Free will is best to believe in, because even if it is not correct - believing in it will act as a placebo making you more likely to do things you might not want to do. Things like going out there and meeting friends, kicking bad habits, starting good ones, and accomplishing your dreams are more likely to be done by people who believe in their power of free will than those convinced in determinism.

    That's the funny thing about determinsm, there is never a reason to actually believe in it.
    Because even if it is factually true, that belief only makes people less likely to do good things

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      I disagree. I believe in almost complete determinism and it's actually made me much more confident and comfortable with myself. Now instead of being afraid of failure and of mistakes I just do my thing and leave the rest to fate. Saves me a lot of stress and self-loathing.
      It's comfy.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      It makes you entirely neurotic about whether the next action you take is going to be the correct one, since you have to take responsibility for literally everything that happens to you, and anything bad could have all been avoided by correct application of your free will.
      Now this is a good thing if free will is actually real, because then yeah you do need to be extremely careful about every action you make and how you apply your free will.

      But if it's not real, then you're giving yourself ulcers over nothing. But then I kinda guess you won't have any choice anyway. This is where I get confused tbh

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >It makes you entirely neurotic about whether the next action you take is going to be the correct one
        Maybe for you, you OCD-ridden spaz.

        Treating determinism as some kind of blackpill is midwit fare. Say you get mad and punch someone in the face. Now, we take that moment in time, with all the atoms in their proper place, and we replay it over and over a billion times, and in every instance you punch that person in the face in the exact same way because the world is deterministic. Who cares? That just means you’re you. Would you want a billion different outcomes in that situation to occur? Is the human mind really that nebulous and random?

        What you’re talking about when you talk about Free Will is just whether the universe is a closed system or an open system, and whether all your actions are in a sense involuntary or just most of them. Either way it’s of no concern to you and doesn’t really matter.

        >Because even if it is factually true, that belief only makes people less likely to do good things
        Those people misunderstand what determinism is

        Determinism implies pure materialism, which implies no afterlife and no moral truth.
        Which is a black pill

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          Didn’t Calvinists believe in determinism? Even Jesus gave the parable about how the seeds of truth only take rest in fertile soil; they fail to take root in those who’ve already hardened their hearts (implying some people are essentially lost causes and can’t grow to accept the truth).
          I think determinism vs free will is a separate issue from whether or not God or a soul exists. I agree that material atheism is cancer to the mind though. If you just believe in God and in your self I don’t think you should care about whether your actions were always fated to happen or not.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Determinism doesn't stop at the notion smth "had to happen", it delves into why exactly did it happen, causal roots. And that opens the door to avoiding that happening again or repairing the problem. Medicine works deterministically and so does engineering, yet there are practical aims to change reality in ways we deem desireable, not stay at the level of "you were fated to have this disease".

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Didn’t Calvinists believe in determinism?
            Ehh.
            The idea is that God will know if you are to go to heaven or hell, since he knows everything.
            And so he would know exactly what you're going to do.
            But if He can, does that mean people have free will?

            I think some can say that there is still room for free will in this model, if there is free will, and God is all-knowing, that means that God knows you will make a choice between how many things, and what the outcomes of every choice will be.
            But I think most Calvinists say that God knows what you will do as well.

            But that's not a popular denomination of Christianity, most believe in free will. I know Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Lutheranism, and Anglicanism do.
            I think the theology of these branches will sooner say that God does not what choices man will make rather than say that God knows exactly what you will do and therefore there isn't free will

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Freewill is necessary for organized religion in order to implement social control.
            However, it's contradictory with god's omniscience and omnipotence, therefore all monotheisms struggle to conciliate the two. islam, judaism and christianity had to cope with the problem that god knows whether you'll be just or a sinner and still punishes you, read about molinism for more information

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Freewill is necessary for organized religion in order to implement social control.
            Well free will is needed to explain why a loving God would let the world have evil, God wants us to chose between being good or not, and so he lets evil exist since without it, there would be no good.

            The omnipotence and omniscience do struggle to coincide.
            Personally I believe God may not be omniscient. Specifically that he does not know what free-will-having beings will do.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Spinoza's God is simply the best answer

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Freewill is necessary for organized religion in order to implement social control.
            However, it's contradictory with god's omniscience and omnipotence, therefore all monotheisms struggle to conciliate the two. islam, judaism and christianity had to cope with the problem that god knows whether you'll be just or a sinner and still punishes you, read about molinism for more information

            The problem here is the conflation of “free will” and Free Will.
            The former is used in religion, and that refers to mankind’s ability to reason and differentiate between good and evil. It’s what separates us from beasts and allows us to make complex moral decisions. The latter is about whether our actions are predetermined in the grand scheme of things and if there are multiple timelines or not. I don’t think the latter is a big problem for religion at all, and I think these two definitions are in fact separate. Human will can still be special even if the outcomes of our decisions are already set in stone.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Treating determinism as some kind of blackpill is midwit fare. Say you get mad and punch someone in the face. Now, we take that moment in time, with all the atoms in their proper place, and we replay it over and over a billion times, and in every instance you punch that person in the face in the exact same way because the world is deterministic. Who cares? That just means you’re you. Would you want a billion different outcomes in that situation to occur? Is the human mind really that nebulous and random?

      What you’re talking about when you talk about Free Will is just whether the universe is a closed system or an open system, and whether all your actions are in a sense involuntary or just most of them. Either way it’s of no concern to you and doesn’t really matter.

      >Because even if it is factually true, that belief only makes people less likely to do good things
      Those people misunderstand what determinism is

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Those people misunderstand what determinism is
        Yes and most people will never understand such obvious hogwash.
        Meaning my point still stands.

        I mean most people seem to think that free will means that we consciously make the call for every single decision we make. Claims no supporter of free will make anymore.
        But that's still the public understanding. Which is what actually matters.

  8. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Determinism is absolute and real, free-will is a meme that makes people ignorant and spiteful. Read spinoza and then bourdieu.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Why would I read some Euro homosexual?
      All the wisdom I need comes from Paul, Peter, Jesus, Ruth, Moses, and the Buddha

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Yet your behavior and belief go against everything the Christ did and said.
        Stay wrong, stay arrogant, stay hateful and stay ignorant.

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