Has any atheist in history ever disproven the theory of moral nihilism? Why should the strong care about the weak?

Has any atheist in history ever disproven the theory of moral nihilism? Why should the strong care about the weak?

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  1. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    1. Morality has an evolutionary basis.
    2. Morality aids in the survival of the individual, the group, and the individual in relation to the group.
    3. Those who only care about themselves will have fewer allies in dangerous situations and will therefore be less likely to survive.
    4. The weak today can be made strong tomorrow. A weak man will be indebted to you for raising him up and will therefore be more likely to aid you in times of danger, generally speaking. The more allies you have, the greater your chance of survival long term.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      Where atheistic morality breaks down is in personal situations, where the individual can act in total secrecy and is liable to suffer no punishment should they bend the rules only a little. This "bending of the rules" adds up over time and leads to logistic collapse. So as long as the individual believes there is no God, they will always seek to bend the rules a little and will come up with a host of justifications in order to do so.

      Perfect righteousness can only be achieved through continual trust in a perfect deity.

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        >in personal situations, where the individual can act in total secrecy and is liable to suffer no punishment should they bend the rules only a little. This "bending of the rules" adds up over time and leads to logistic collapse.
        But if you understand that logically, you can understand why moral and virtuous behavior should be upheld in all situations.

        For example, I'm a grown adult living alone. No one will see or know if I decide to eat a tub of chocolate icecream for dinner or drink a few shots of liquor or skip my daily exercise or leave the dirty dishes in the sink for a week. But I don't do that, why? Because I strongly feel it's bad, trashy behavior.
        Logically it's because it'd be the beginning of a slippery slope that will lead to me turning into a filthy slob, but that's rarely how I think about it. In fact if I start calculating benefits and drawbacks, if I bargain with myself, I'd probably convince myself it's okay to slip a little. But I have innate contempt for those behaviors, so I can resist those urges.
        God has nothing to do with that. As far as I know, it doesn't say anywhere in the bible that thou shalt do thee dishes in timely fashion or whatever. I probably have the parents who raised me and the society that judged me to thank for giving me that sort of discipline.

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        >leads to logistic collapse
        Oh so it actually doesn't break down.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Morality has an evolutionary basis.
      If that's true, then why don't all animals have a sense of morality? Why don't they all have the same rights as humans?

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        They do have a primitive sense of morality: they play, they nurture, they protect one another, they show affection, they make sacrifices for the sake of the whole. Some will even weep when one of their flock/pack dies.

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          They also murder and rape each other for fun.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Not indiscriminately. The fact that they will only rape and or kill in certain circumstances and for certain reasons is a type of morality.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Do you think bears and lions have moral qualms about killing you?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            I think they have the beginnings of moral qualms about killing those closest to them.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Usually that has nothing to do with morality, just power hierarchy. A gang of gorillas will happily murder a neighboring gang of gorillas and eat the babies to eliminate competition. Chimpanzees and dogs will rip off your face if given the opportunity. cats and wolves want to eat you.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Usually that has nothing to do with morality, just power hierarchy
            Hierarchy is again a type of morality, a type of beneficial ordering. At this point I think we're arguing semantics.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            "moral nihilism" is literally just Christian morality except "the strong" is God.

            It's funny that you're basically refuting your own argument in this post. "hierarchy is good" is the same as "moral nihilism"

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >"moral nihilism" is literally just Christian morality except "the strong" is God.
            If that's true, then you could equally say moral nihilism is just Christian morality but you make yourself God.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            The idea that that's a bad thing would come from the notion that God is somehow more virtuous than a violent sadistic low impulse control rapist Black person but her isn't more virtuous he's only more powerful, you could try to argue that him being more powerful makes him more worthy but it also makes him more evil because he has a greater capacity to enact his evil desires.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >"hierarchy is good" is the same as "moral nihilism"
            No. Moral nihilism is the belief that morality does not exist. A belief in the inherent morality of hierarchy necessitates a belief in morality.

            A power hierarchy only works if the top person loves everyone beneath him.

            Sure. The head gorilla may crush and dismember those gorillas that do not belong to his group, but his willingness to work with the gorillas who serve under him and to permit them to share in the spoils of their collective venture is again evidence of an emerging morality, primitive though it might be.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            A power hierarchy only works if the top person loves everyone beneath him.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            only the ones with things wrong with their brain. normal, healty people think murder and rape are wrong.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      You're right.
      God does have an evolutionary basis.

      John 15

      “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

      “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

      “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command. I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other.

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        Yes, I think both Christ and His Father make constant reference to nature because they desire us to learn from it.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      >God aids in the survival of the individual, the group, and the individual in relation to the group.

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        He made an empirical, falsifiable statement. You made the opposite, one based on faith and supernaturalism - what israelites invented to rival European empiricism and rule of law.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      First two are true, last not necessarily so - cooperation is only valuable until it isn’t and oftentimes it was less valuable than enslavement, conquering or genocide.

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        >generally speaking
        >more likely
        Reading comprehension, anon.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      1. Morality does not have an evolutionary basis, what we describe as "moral behaviour" is susceptible to being explained by evolution. This only explains how we came to invent such a thing as morality, not why we should follow it. And besides, one only needs to look at the animal kingdoms, they themselves are subject to evolution, and yet we do not see morality in them. It has an evolutionary explanation, not an evolutionary basis.
      2. If so called morality ought to be followed because it aids the survival of the individual or the group, then why would slavery be immoral? It undoubtedly increases the prosperity of those who use it, if an individual or group can enslave others for their benefit, why shouldn't they? Also, one must ask why survival is even desirable in the first place.
      3. Your arguments for morality are entirely selfish, you say one should only employ morality insofar as it gains them allies or increases their chances of survival. What is one supposed to do if a situation arises where killing someone will increase their chances of survival or gain them allies? There are innumerable historical instances of those who committed mass murder and as a result gained power, resources, allies etc. Genghis Khan for instance.
      Secular morality is impossible, an oxymoron.

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        >1. Morality does not have an evolutionary basis, what we describe as "moral behaviour" is susceptible to being explained by evolution. This only explains how we came to invent such a thing as morality, not why we should follow it
        Normal people have it inherently by early childhood, you don’t. People will put you in line if you step out, simple as that

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          If morality is inherent, how do you explain people who act immorally? How do you explain so called psychopaths? And also, those who exploit others on the widest scale aren't put in line, they become billionaires, 100,000 people die of opioid overdoses annually in the U.S alone, no-one from the mainly responsible pharmaceutical company served one second in jail. As Thucydides said "The strong do what they will, the weak suffer what they must"

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            So in other words, you have obviously never taken a class on undergraduate never mind graduate level genetics or biology in general, never mind psychometric or behavioural genetics, but are somehow extremely confident in making vast proclamations about how humans behave.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            Non-answer, why is there so much disagreement over morality between people? Within nations? Between Nations? Can you do a genetic test and determine someone opinion on gun control?

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            You seem to be under this illusion that evolution somehow produces an objective truth. Evolution simply produces organisms with certain pro-social desires that we call morality and that we assume to be something objective when it’s not. We just happen to agree a lot about what’s moral. But clearly we disagree as well, since we are not all the same, and have our own specific values and desires.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            So you admit secular morality is just imaginary, arbitrary, subjective etc.

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            So is christian morality. The basis of God's morality is basically that he's the biggest Black person around and nobody can do anything about it

          • 5 months ago
            Anonymous

            >If morality is inherent, how do you explain people who act immorally?
            You know disorders exist...
            lmao wtf is this board.

  2. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    no because moral nihilism is correct and the logical conclusion of an atheistic worldview but since normies absolutely cannot bare this we have to find ways around it like secular humanism tier autism

  3. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    These people talk a big game but they sure don't act indifferently if you hit them in the hand with a hammer.

    • 5 months ago
      Anonymous

      >The weak should fear the strong.
      >No! Not like that!

      • 5 months ago
        Anonymous

        He ain't wrong.

        • 5 months ago
          Anonymous

          >The weak should fear the strong.
          >No! Not like that!

          https://i.imgur.com/BUIrFnQ.jpg

          Has any atheist in history ever disproven the theory of moral nihilism? Why should the strong care about the weak?

          Nihilism is like Einsteinium.
          It sounds smart, but it quickly disappears

  4. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Why should the strong care about the weak?
    Because I'm weak and if a strong one cared about me I'd give him a blowjob.

  5. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    >if a magical man in sky didn't tell me to rape, kill and torture, I would totally do all of that stuff
    >also, you're a nihilist if you think otherwise

  6. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    Ironic when Christianity was literally created as a israeli supernatural cult to rally Women, slaves, children, and the underclasses against the Roman aristocracy.

  7. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    Morality is a spook.

  8. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    First define morality

  9. 5 months ago
    Anonymous

    Natural law based morality doesn't require a God, it's just inferences about the way the world works. Lots of atheists/agnostics end up going with this sort of worldview, which is why they often end up agreeing with Christians at every point where the rubber hits the road (and why there is so much convergence between religions as well - there's lots of theological difference, but they are all seeking to explain and navigate the same reality.)

    For many, however, the nihilism is a feature, not a bug. (Many "Christians" embrace this too, for the same reasons. Convergence everywhere )

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