God does not exist.

God does not exist.

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  1. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Proof?

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      Jesus didn't come back within his apostles' lifetime, Q.E.D.

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        He came back in 3 days, then again before Pentecost.

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          That's not the second coming, and you know it.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            That's the coming of the Kingdom, aka the establishment of the Christian Church.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Thanks for conceding my point.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            I conceded your point?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            He did not concede. He won.

            >"t-the second coming did happen"
            >"no"
            >"i-it was [something different]"
            You can cope all you want, that's a crushing defeat.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            He did not concede. He won.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >That's the coming of the Kingdom
            >goes away

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            The Church still exists, and has existed for 2000+ years.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Except he conveniently won't show up to explain or clarify anything so we have a thousand different denominations all crying about how all the others are bad and wrong lol. The only tool we have to discern which is right is an old, contradictory, nonsensical book that does shit like ban mixed fabrics but not beating slaves. No thanks, I'll pass lol.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >we have a thousand different denominations all crying about how all the others are bad and wrong lol. The only tool we have to discern which is right is an old, contradictory, nonsensical book that does shit like ban mixed fabrics but not beating slaves.
            Actually there is a guy called the Pope and a Magisterium that resolves these issues infallibly. Not sure what you mean by "we". That's 100% a Protestant issue.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Actually there is a guy called the Pope and a Magisterium that resolves these issues infallibly
            And what fricking reason do I have to believe any of that?

            "People said this guy is infallible (even though he obviously isn't) so he is"

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >And what fricking reason do I have to believe any of that?
            You just complained about not being able to figure out who was right to clarify the Bible for you. When I point out the Bible has been clarified already through the Holy Spirit in the Church, you get mad.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            You claimed that the Bible has been clarified already lol, my point is that we have no reason to believe that and the fact that your god allegedly exists but won't just come down for a few seconds to actually clarify things (instead of "the spirit did!" which means nothing in reality) is comical. How much suffering, both in reality and in a hypothetical (and evil) eternal puinishment, could be avoided if he just came down and was clear instead of relying on a book interpreted by fallible human beings across multiple translations?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >if I dismiss Spirit of God
            >if I dismiss God incarnating
            >if I dismiss the organization he established to explain things
            >.... then we have no reason to believe it was clarified
            You thought this was a checkmate, didn't you?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            You're correct.
            If I don't grant any of the things, no non-Christian would grant, then the Bible is a mess

            How morons think Pope has special clarifying powers, after historical event's like the Borgia Pope. It's beyond me. Those positions are untenable

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            See, you can say that, but then I get to call you a heretic.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            > no evidence for any supernatural things
            > appeal to supernatural things to prove a claim
            You thought anyone with a remotely functioning brain would buy this?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            > God literally walked the Earth
            > Miracles happen to this day
            > Atheists can't manage to verify because they cannot measure anything supernatural
            > Somehow my problem
            Not likely.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Just show us the miracles, dude

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Here you go.
            https://catholicism.org/category/miracles-and-apparitions

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            So, like, if I don't believe any of the stories about miracles. How do I go about becoming a Christian?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            If I don't believe Ricky Gervais and Christopher Hitchens and their comedy routines, how do I go about becoming an atheist?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            No, but seriously. I don't wanna go to hell, just cuz I'm not gullible

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Go see them for yourself.

            >God literally walked the Earth
            No proof other than "old book says so, trust me bro"

            > Miracles happen to this day
            No proof other than "they totally happen, trust me bro"

            > Atheists can't manage to verify because they cannot measure anything supernatural
            We can't measure anything supernatural but you have to believe it anyway!

            And if God would just appear to all of humanity at once, say "hey i'm real, obey me" and then dip, that would be proof enough lol. But he won't do that, I wonder why.

            >> Atheists can't manage to verify because they cannot measure anything supernatural
            >[confirms it]
            Thank you.

            >if God would just appear to all of humanity at once, say "hey i'm real, obey me" and then dip, that would be proof enough lol.
            He did lol.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            He allegedly did before it was possible to record and photograph things and only did it in a certain part of the world, afterwhich he relied on word of mouth and a book to get the message across. Sucks for the people living in China and the Americas and Africa and India and Europe, huh?

            The deeper you go, the more absurd this shit gets. How can a grown adult believe any of this and take any of this cope seriously?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >People relied on word of mouth
            >Word of mouth got to them
            >Too bad
            Okay?

            >every couple centuries we have better recording methods
            >God didn't appear every couple centuries
            >that's a problem for me
            Nice.

            The more you articulate your own position, the more absurd it gets. You don't know what you're asking.

            [...]
            >"t-the second coming did happen"
            >"no"
            >"i-it was [something different]"
            You can cope all you want, that's a crushing defeat.

            The second coming? homie read the thread lol. You fell apart.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >The second coming?
            Yes, that was the topic at hand. Seethe more.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Go see them for yourself.
            Where do they keep the miracles? A mountain in Greece?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            We're not hiding them. Go to a church and ask. Or go to Athos, sure. It's you who wants to see them.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            I went to Athos but they didn't have any miracles to show me. Now what?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Who did you ask? I am going soon myself, I will talk to them.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            The tall guy with the robe
            Ask them to take a picture next time a miracle happens.

            God is not a slot-machine.
            I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you go there with the mindset that they can summon up miracles on command.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            The guy without a name?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            I can make up a name if you'd like

            Why you think these people can do miracles on command? It's so silly

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Please do. Since you already proved you didn't look for miracles, my point is proven and I'm really only engaging to see the creative mind behind this cope.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            What was your point?
            That we're irrational to be skeptical about miracles unless we travel to Greece?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            The point is look for the evidence if that's what you want to see. Nobody is hiding stuff from you and nobody's stopping your obsession with Greece from becoming reality.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            If there's good evidence for miracles I would really really really love to see it
            I'm not gonna travel to Greece just because superstitious people think the monks there get divine favours

            I take a miracle to be, broadly, the suspension of the laws of nature, you know, magic
            I'm not clear on what you think a miracle is. What kinds of things should I specifically be looking for?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >I would really really really love to see it
            Nobody's stopping you.
            >I'm not gonna travel to Greece
            Nobody's forcing you. You brought it up lol
            >What kinds of things should I specifically be looking for?
            Whatever you're interested in. If you can establish that a particular law of nature was broken, go after miracles with that law.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Let me ask something else
            Why do you think there's such a thing as miracles?
            Do you think it's possible for the same reasons that convinced you, to convince me?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            For the same reason I think there is such a thing as love. Overwhelming amount of testimonies across history, geographies, cultures and convictions.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            I have a theory about what's going on.
            We both have access to the same data about miracles. (It's not like you've seen someone rise from the dead, and I've not, etc )
            We just disagree about how to interpret it.

            I think it's best explained by people making stuff up. And you think it's best explained by people telling the truth.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Correct. Now my theory accounts for the fact that in the last 3 thousand years and on virtually all densely inhabited continents, people testified to the same stuff. Your doesn't. Care to elaborate on that? Surely they did not conspire.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            I think people are gullible, and likely to believe stories that confirm the beliefs they already hold and/or want to be true.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            So they got tricked into believing the same things. Okay, now you have even more to account for. Why were they tricked into the same things based on so closely compatible beliefs? I'm asking you to explain the convergence among testimonies.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            1st of, this behavior from you is so weird. Like it's on me make up an explanation you like, else you're warranted to believe whatever the frick you want.
            Obviously I can't stop you.
            But it's not like the lack of my explanation makes your explanation (it's all true!), into a good explanation.

            Same way you explain people telling stories about being abducted by aliens. That's how I explain it.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            There's nothing weird about me pointing out that my take explains things yours doesn't.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Look, I don't need to make up an explanation for why my the old drunk by the post office thought he saw a ghost (of the virgin Mary) - in order to have good reason to think he didn't
            Maybe he imagined it, maybe he is just lying, maybe he just saw a regular woman and mistook her for a ghost. I don't really care.

            Your explanation: That the ghost was real. It explain the experience, yeah? It's just that it's a false explanation.
            Thinking like that sets you up for all kinds of false beliefs.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Absolutely! You don't need to account for similarities between accounts if you only address one account. But you addressed all of them at once. And there is a pretty glaring hole in the way you accounted for them. There isn't in the way I accounted for them.
            I'm not saying you're stupid or that your ideas are irrational. What you're saying would work on a small scale. But when discussing the large scale, it doesn't quite do the job. There is a clear pattern.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Okay, lets take Catholics. They are expected to see apparitions of the Virgin Mary
            they exist in a culture where this can happen, and it's kind of a cool thing if it does
            they've been told this their whole lives

            Some people could be outright lying, because they want the attention
            Some other people, spend all their lives constantly on the lookout for Mary, then they see a funny looking shadow at the edge of their eye, and mistake it for a Marian apparition
            it doesn't take a whole lot of internal convincing themselves that actually was Mary

            >There is a clear pattern.
            the pattern is that cultures got all kinds of ghost stories/religions/supernatural beliefs
            so you get people seeing stuff that they've been primed to see (or lying)

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Agreed. Some might be faking or mistaken because apparition of Mary was already an established phenomenon. But why was it an established phenomenon?
            >the pattern is that cultures got all kinds of ghost stories/religions/supernatural beliefs
            It's much more than that.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            I don't get it
            You think all religions are true? It seems so weird to count people both seeing visions of Vishnu and the virgin Mary as evidence for the same thing
            that really these things should have different explanations

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            No, all religions are not true. But all (long-lasting) religions have an experiential basis. People did have experiences in cults of Athena, in cults of Vishnu, in cults of Moloch etc. And the experiences show a lot of convergence. If they are real, the convergence is accounted for. If they aren't, we are on to something really big because the likelihood of random made-up stories converging like this is fairly low.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Hmm, maybe human biology explains the experiences.
            Like if you put humans in similar social settings, get them really hyped up, under a lot of pressure or expectations
            Maybe prime them into expecting something special to happen, by telling them stories about it happening to other people
            Then they will have them, brought own by their own psychology

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >pressure
            >stories
            It happens across mythologies and social settings, classes and roles.
            Don't get me wrong, as an atheist I would probably be forced to believe some kind of biological precursor to these beliefs too. Because I wouldn't be able to see any other common denominator in these experiences besides that they happend to humans. But it's a massive if, one that C.G.Jung tried to pursue academically and it got him nowhere academically and to absolute faith in God personally.

            "If" is the start of a conditional statement.

            It matters. There is no if in the room.

            >There is no if in the room.
            There is a massive "if" in the room. If things are good by their results and the result is ultimately nothingness, nothing is good.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Most people's "divine experiences" is simply them getting a funny feeling after being hyped up in church
            there's nothing supernatural going on with that, you can have the same feeling at a music concert

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            I'm fine excluding the funny feelings after being hyped up from the set.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Then what are we even talking about?

            Hearing/Seeing dead people?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Miracles in general. Overnight healing. Raising from the dead. Seeing the future. Telepathy. Levitation. I'm not sure if apparition or communication with the dead is technically a miracle, I don't want to stretch this conversation too brodaly because the convergence is not universal across all "supernatural" phenomena in general.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah, that's basically everything supernatural humans could tell interesting stories about without making them too complicated
            I don't get what you think is mysterious

            humans takes stuff they see in the world around them, alters it a bit, then make stories about them
            Birds can fly, that's cool? Here's a story about a flying human, SUPER COOL
            What if dead humans, weren't really dead? Awesome stories.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            They made many of them hella complicated. You haven't explained the convergence. It's not mysterious at all, it's just missing from your account.

            >describes the process of making stuff up
            Thank you. Where's the convergence in that?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >the convergence.
            What convergence? Be specific.

            If you mean stuff like ghost stories being about dead humans that behave like alive humans.
            I think this explained by humans universally being surrounded by alive humans, this is true for all cultures.
            Then they take the behavior of alive humans, and apply it to dead humans (dead humans is also something else that is universal in all cultures)

            You get what I'm getting at? Everyone have experienced life and death.
            Then they make up stories that mixes these two elements they are already familiar with.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Saints in similar situations performing similar miracles. The one I remember most were hermit monks levitating during prayer and their body decaying either extremely slowly or with various unusual liquids and fragrances. And in many cases also "supernatural" sanctions for disturbing the body post-mortem. This exact combination for example includes Syrian monks and Tibetan monks both, centuries, religions, cultures and thousands of kilometers apart. Similar or a more narrow of claims like these include thousands of cases across continents.

            And again, you don't have to explain the process of a dude seeing a living body, a dead body and switching a couple properties. I'm aware how people make ideas up. I'm just not aware how they get aligned with thousands of others whom they have never seens or been in touch with. And atheists seem to not know either, seeing that the best shot is something akin to Jung's collective unconscious.

            I use magic synonymously with supernatural and miracle

            >It's a hypothesis
            obviously
            I just think it's a better explanation than magic

            >I use magic synonymously with supernatural and miracle
            I don't.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >the best shot is something akin to Jung's collective unconscious.
            I'm gonna run with an unknown natural explanation, no room for magic in my worldview

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            When you make it work, let me know.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            What you mean work? It's not like my worldview "fails"
            There's a bunch of things I don't know, levitating monks are just 1 more thing. Come to think of it, Catholics got the same thing, with corpses of saints not decaying.

            Clearly something about 'purity' going on. Where monks and saints are pure, and putrefaction is something naturally perceived as impure.
            Don't think it's weird that people take special attention of pure monks/saints, remaining pure in death.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >What you mean work?
            I mean when you actually can account for the convergence with a natural explanation, please share that mechanism. So far all you have is a hypothesis that went nowhere last time it was mainstream. That might not be a "fail" yet, but it's pretty far from making it work.
            >things I don't know
            Fine with me.
            >something about 'purity' going on
            Perhaps. You might be onto something, who knows, maybe there is a brain circuit that connects purity with levitation in our minds, never say never. When you make it work, unironically let me know. I will be interested to see. Until then, I'm prone to not dismiss an overwhelming masse of testimonies just because of a pre-existent bias against them.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >pre-existent bias against them.
            It's not like this exist for no reason. I got massive inductive evidence for naturalism.
            All the times in history the supernatural explanation have been false, and it turned out to be something mundane.

            Besides, there's a huge problem with accepting "supernatural explanation". Explanations are about figuring out why one thing, instead of another thing.
            There's no constraints on the supernatural. It can do anything.
            You will never be able to explain why one outcome, instead of another, if the supernatural is able to cause/explain both outcomes. (can do anything -> cannot explain anything)

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >If things are good by their results and the result is ultimately nothingness, nothing is good.

            That's not what happens though.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >God literally walked the Earth
            No proof other than "old book says so, trust me bro"

            > Miracles happen to this day
            No proof other than "they totally happen, trust me bro"

            > Atheists can't manage to verify because they cannot measure anything supernatural
            We can't measure anything supernatural but you have to believe it anyway!

            And if God would just appear to all of humanity at once, say "hey i'm real, obey me" and then dip, that would be proof enough lol. But he won't do that, I wonder why.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >instead of "the spirit did!" which means nothing in reality) is comical
            It's literally in the Bible.
            >And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. (John 14:16-17)

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >And what fricking reason do I have to believe any of that?
            You just complained about not being able to figure out who was right to clarify the Bible for you. When I point out the Bible has been clarified already through the Holy Spirit in the Church, you get mad.

            If Pope was just a human, and didn't have special super powers.. How could you go about figuring that out?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Nice bait

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Which church?

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        I kneel.

  2. 6 months ago
    Anonymous
    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      Hey man it would be weird if dying wasn’t the trippiest thing possible. Probably a good mechanism to flood your brain with positivity when you’re at the end of your rope because letting reality sink in would increase your chance of heart attack guaranteeing your death

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        >letting reality sink in
        Who told you what reality is?

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      I've had this but not really near-death. I've been newborn ever since. My understanding at the time was that it was the holy spirit.

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        We respect you for being self-reliant and not reliant on “intellectuals.” You could be wrong but at least you’re not relying on a mob to have your back.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      So, like, what's supposed to be going on here? What's your theory?

      That sometimes people experience brain-trauma, but God mistakenly think they've died, and sent them to heaven, only for them to be cast out when God realize they're actually alive?

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      Atheism doesn't mean materialism.

      It's funny how essentially all theist arguments against "atheism" are not really against atheism but against materialism. What do theists do when they have to face atheists like Schopenhauer, who was an idealist and believed in the supernatural? Do their heads explode?

  3. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    God does exist.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      No he doesn’t.

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        Yes he does.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      No proof

  4. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Then we'll have to invent him

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      He can make him better. Stronger. Faster.

  5. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Burden of proof is now on you. Please provide evidence.

  6. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    My credence in the Pope having anything to do with a God, rather than just being the guy that strongarms the big-hats in Rome to vote for him
    it's so so so so low
    you won't convince me, unless he starts working miracles or something amazing

  7. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >God does not exist.

    Yes he does

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      If you were wrong about God existing.
      How could you go about figuring that out?

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        Just do good and not evil and don't regret it. It doesn't have to be rocket science. Do good even to those who as evil to you. The result of evil is evil and the result of good is good.

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          What good is there in a finite universe? All dies. The only goodness is God eternal.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            The gift of food to those without food is good. The give of shelter to one without shelter is good. The gift of clothing is good. The gift of medicine is good.

            Good words that are helpful and beneficial is good.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Not if it all ultimately leads to naught.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            You should have self respect even if it leads to nothing. A more beautiful thing that ceases to exist is better than an ugly thing that ceases to exist.

            >how do you determine beauty
            Same as anyone, feefees

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >A more beautiful thing that ceases to exist is better than an ugly thing that ceases to exist.
            Fair point, brother. Thank you.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            "If" is the start of a conditional statement.

            It matters. There is no if in the room.

  8. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Do you say this about everyone who ignores you? I mean, it is one way to cope. Better than what incels do usually.

  9. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why Catholics think God got a thing for doing miracles at the same geographical locations?

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      I've heard of Great spirit and Bahala which I think might be other names for God as well, which would mean he was active in North America and the Phillipines as well, if true.

  10. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    False. But I don't care if someone doesn't know that. Why do you, you authoritarian leftist?

  11. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Just to be clear:

    Actual magic is a better explanation
    than
    Humans making up stories? (grounded in human biology->human psychology->human culture)

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      Idk never mentioned magic.
      in human biology->human psychology->human culture
      Never saw this proven either. It's a hypothesis. One that pushed psychotherapists from scientific to borderline esoteric category at that.

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        I use magic synonymously with supernatural and miracle

        >It's a hypothesis
        obviously
        I just think it's a better explanation than magic

  12. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Unfortunately, Hitch was correct.

  13. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    How you tell if a levitating monk is doing magic, or if it's a miracle?

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      You flip a coin. Funny thing is, it always lands on miracle.

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        Maybe a powerful wizard cast a spell to cause the outcome of all such coinflips

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