Esoteric Protestantism

I spent yesterday morning in my average American Baptist church singing the usual 1800's hymns and thinking about the olden days in Protestant lands during the early industrial era.

There's something very unsettling and I haven't seen /x/ talk about it before. I noticed there's not a lot of songs that predate the 1800's in the average American hymnal. Something happened around that era that creeps me out.

First of all, all of the magnificent architecture in America appeared in this time. These impoverished farmers in the late 1700's and early 1800's just decided to build huge marble buildings (stuff like the Philidelphia city hall or anything in DC). Their faces marked with confused expressions in the old black and white photographs is unsettling, too.

What makes it even weirder is the literature from that period. Strange fictional writings pop up with references to occult-like concepts such as integrating expressions like "By, Jove!" into common conversation. Referring to Jupiter so bluntly doesn't seem like something you'd expect from a majority Christian society.

On top of it all, western occultism FLOURISHED in this period. Hermetic orders like Golden Dawn were born. Same with gentlemen's clubs and weirder things like the Freemasons, Rosicrucians, or IOOF. Protestants hold to rosicrucian symbolism (like Lutherans or sometimes old churches with esoteric stained glass symbols).

What was going on in this time? It's like a whole race of people, architecture, and literature was just born out of thin air. What's the deal with this?

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  1. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >What's the deal with this?
    There were literally centuries of philosophical, theological, societal, and architectural movements that preceded everything you just mentioned. You probably just slept through history class.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      But I think OP does have a point. American Protestantism is a cultural phenomenon disconnected from European Protestantism bearing with it unique practices. It's a fair question.

  2. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    industrialized witchcraft

    protestant christianity is pre-secular witchcraft

    induatrialized is like marines and police and shit

    pentecostals
    baptists
    methodists
    et cetera

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      %3D

      %3D

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        the flood

  3. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    The Bavarian Illuminati was formed in 1776 in Germany. From what I have been able to conclude over the years, they decided they needed low level stooges if they were ever going to get anywhere. The Satanic monied elite always existed. But it was around about that time they decided to create lower branches, lower levels of the pyramid to spread their power and influence beyond just the capital cities and monarchs they controlled. They wanted to control things at the local level too. That's when the profusion of clubs, brotherhoods, fraternities, and secret societies began. It allowed them to have more boots on the ground, most of them never really knowing who and what they were working for. It was at that point they got their tentacles into everything.

    I read once that around the turn of the 20th century the Masons, who up to that point were basically just agnostic heathens mostly at the lower levels were given an order to invade the churches and take them over. No mason ever went to church prior to about 1900. I remember when I read that about 15 years ago I mentioned it to my dad. He had an interesting story along those lines. He said at his Baptist church they had a Deacon. This guy was on all the committees and he was a very powerful guy in the church hierarchy. My dad said the guy was a Mason and he just about never even attended actual services. He just showed up for all the meetings. My dad was kind of surprised to hear what I said but he said it made sense in respect to this guy, who coincidently he didn't like and didn't trust. Why anybody even put up with the guy, let alone kept him on as a high ranking wheel in the church was beyond my dad's understanding. Nobody seemed to mind that this butthole was a member of the church, but never spent more than a small handful of Sundays a year actually in church. i guess he was just doing what his bosses told him to do. Get in a church and take control of it.

  4. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >I noticed there's not a lot of songs that predate the 1800's in the average American hymnal
    This is because the English language wasn't fixed until that time. Grammar hadn't been standardized and spelling differences remain until this day. Pick up a book of Robert Burns poems and see how intelligible they are. Or read the autobiography of Ben Franklin. Dictionaries came into use at this time and this helped standardize the language.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      The Wesley brothers essentially invented the Hymn. I think it was John who noticed that in England the poor like to gather in the pubs and sing songs for entertainment. He figured if he had songs they could sing in church, they'd come to church on Sunday instead of going to the pubs. It was fantastically successful and was one of the triggers of The Great Awakening. That's why all the oldest hymns in the old hymn books are usually creited to either John or Charles Wesley. They essentially wrote all the first hymns.

      Prior to that, there was no singing as part of Protstant church services.

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        You are correct, but to OP's point, this was a unique phenomena of this period. Catholic hymns existed, but were Latin based and more focused on specific liturgy for for the Church. Angus Dei, Requiems, etc. What is interesting is the terms used, Hymn, and that Hymns in Christianity have their basis in Hebrew Psalms. And while these Hymns arose in pubs, the other thing that arose in pubs at that time was Freemasonry. OP is correct that there are parallels in architecture, music, and Freemason culture at this specific time.

  5. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >First of all, all of the magnificent architecture in America appeared in this time.
    You have to understand that people hadn't invented ways to build shitty buildings yet. They only know one way and that was through artisanry and craftsmanship.
    >These impoverished farmers in the late 1700's and early 1800's just decided to build huge marble buildings
    No, it was planned. Montreal is the best example. Most of its civic projects were started under the French and continued by the English using Irish labor under both the French and English. You had a planned "famine" that created the labor force used to achieve most of what was achieved in the New World. Expansion into the New World was always planned on an International scale. Masonic symbols are all over the city for what it is worth
    >Their faces marked with confused expressions in the old black and white photographs is unsettling, too.
    Smiling for photos literally hadn't been invented yet. Photography was still new. No one thought to ask people to smile for photos. That is no shit, the real answer. None of the oldest photos have people smiling in them.

  6. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    American protestantism is especially connected to freemasonry. European protestantism has a freemason/secret society under layer, but was originally just about the common man's right to have a personal relationship with God not ordained by the dogma of the authority structure of the church. The freemason component of it emerged after the schism as the freemasons took advantage of the schism to broaden their own control and lessen the jesuits control over christianity and Europe. The Cathars, Arianism, Donatism, and the earliest form of christianity which was Gnosticism all preceded protestantism with similar aspects and philosophies that differed from the catholic corruption. Similarly, all christian holidays actually come from paganism, and the protestant idea of a man being his own church, ie a man having his own relationship with God without the need of the dogma of the church. Was also a main point in Germanic paganism, even core elements of Germanic law were preserved to the present day in the form of English and American common law, putting the right of the individual and collective man over the structures of authority.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      >The Cathars, Arianism, Donatism, and the earliest form of christianity which was Gnosticism all preceded protestantism
      So I don't think you can list the Cathars with Arianism and Donatism and your claim that the earliest form of Christianity is Gnosticsm is probably not accurate too. Augustine Christianity and proto-Coptic Christianity weren't really connected to the Cathartic thought that arose during the 12th century that was also connected to the Bogomils. This was certainly unique to France and the resulting Avignon Papacy altered the Catholic Church forever and, in my opinion, created the necessity for Protestantism. The rise of Marianism (thinly veiled Basque Mari worship) and the shift to a policy of incorporating paganism into the Church left the Church irreparably damaged. The Jesuits were just an extension of this which arose after the spread of veiled Cathartic belief via the Reconquista. The belief is commonly that the Albigensian crusade extinguished Cathartic belief, but the reality is these beliefs when incorporated into the church writ large, and you simply had one group of former Crusader Gnostics (Knights Hospitalier/Malta) win control of the Church and wage war against another group of former Crusader Gnostics (Knights Templar). Regardless, Christianity never had Gnostic roots. Christians were essentially a parallel version of Judaism to the Essenes, Sadducees, and Pharisees, the former being a Roman variant of Judaism forced onto the israelites by the Edomite King Herod. Which ironically makes Christianity more israeli than modern Judaism.

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        Gnosticism predates Augustine christianity. Coptic christianity and Gnosticism both have almost exact philosophical parallels with its direct descendant Valentinianism and much later Catharism. Donatism shares elements specifically in regard to the personal relationship between one's faith and their relationship with God, rather than their faith in the authority of the church. Arianism had a similar element, but its main heresy in the eyes of the catholic corruption was their view on the trinity, the Arians also sought to preserve the pagan traditions rather than overwrite them like the catholics. None of the branches I mentioned also recognized the infallibility or the authority of the pope, including the latest protestants.

  7. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >reject structured, hierarchical, impersonal religion
    >don't become mystics
    >instead become... what protestants became
    protestants explain yourselves

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      Too many millenia have passed since paganism was widely practiced, older traditions have been forgotten or rewritten. Evangelicalism also destroyed the original principles of protestantism in the US, and US evangelicals are comically brainwashed and the bigger churches are comically corrupt, almost as much as the catholic church. However much of the revival in idealistic philosophy in Europe occurred in protestant Europe.

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