Despite the muh rational logical person larp why are atheists only capable of arguing from emotion, why can't they simply provide a basis for the...

Despite the muh rational logical person larp why are atheists only capable of arguing from emotion, why can't they simply provide a basis for their morality which isn't relative?

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  1. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Except morality is not subjective and 100% determined by society and environment. Which thus means that humanity has literally outgrown religion, as the morality it suposes as more and more evil to a larger and larger portion of society. Theists can't deny this. Even if God was real, this would still be our real, on the ground situation

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >100% determined by society and environment.
      so it's subjective. are you moronic?

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Atheists cannot form a coherent and decisive argument

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Everyone's morality is subjective
        >NOT MINE
        God in the Bible changes his mind several times and permits the breaking of commandments in multiple instances. Jesus overturned Mosiac law, and the Church never agreed on right and wrong because it's always been a subjective thing despite all pretenses of objectivity

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          >God in the Bible changes his mind several times and permits the breaking of commandments in multiple instances
          no he doesn't

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Thou shall not kill
            >Except when someone commits blasphemy or when I feel like murdering everyone on planet Earth in a flood

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            are you under the impression that the 6th commandment has no nuance and theological understanding behind it? because that has never been any Christian or israeli understanding of the commandments.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Morality is simple, god gave 10 simple commandments to follow
            >Except this one, it is actually quite nuanced and not simple to understand at all and involves lots of case law and lots of extrapolation to understand exactly what he meant

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            not Christiaan theology try again

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Cope

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            strawman :^)

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            What does Thou Shalt Not Kill actually mean then? Why did God say this and then not elaborate on justified killings, if these 10 commandments were the most important things that people followed?

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >What does Thou Shalt Not Kill actually mean then?
            this reads as someone who just has knowledge of the 10 commandments but has never opened the Bible.
            If you have an argument you can present it but I'm not going to give a class on the Old Testament.

            Are you taking the position that God instructed people never to kill with no nuance or further theological understanding of said commandment?

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            I took a class in college about the Old Testament, I had to read the entire thing. The fact that you need a “class” on explaining it just shows how moronic it is to follow the Ten Commandments because the Ten Commandments themselves are extremely nuanced and not specific. The fact that anyone even talks about them as a moral guideline is ludicrous when they can’t even be assed to comprehend what exactly they mean. So Thou Shalt Not Kill actually means it’s okay to kill sometimes. How about Thou Shalt Not Steal, is it okay to steal sometimes too? How does one differentiate between these two commandments?

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            so to clearly are you taking the position that God instructed people never to kill with no nuance or further theological understanding of said commandment?

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            I’m taking the position that even moral absolutists don’t believe in absolute morals because the source of their morals is exceedingly vague.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            thats why the oral law exists

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >God says killing is wrong
            >God orders several people to kill everyone in a city or rival tribe, ordering babies having their heads dashed upon the rocks

            >God says you need to cut off your foreskin and sacrifice animals to him
            >Jesus overturns Mosaic law and God gives him a thumbs up

            >God says witchcraft is wrong
            >Jesus performs magic

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >God says killing is wrong
            see

            are you under the impression that the 6th commandment has no nuance and theological understanding behind it? because that has never been any Christian or israeli understanding of the commandments.

            >>God says you need to cut off your foreskin and sacrifice animals to him
            overturns Mosaic law and God gives him a thumbs up
            burden is on you to show God "changed his mind"

            >God says witchcraft is wrong
            >Jesus performs magic
            miracles are not magic, the source of "magic" is demons the source of miracles is God

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >burden is on you to show God "changed his mind"
            I literally just did
            >God says you HAVE to do this or else you're not in the club
            >Oops not any more 🙂
            That's called changing your mind. If it had been optional you might have a leg to stand on but it never was an option. David wouldn't have shown up with a sack of foreskins as proof of his piety if Yaweh didn't put such emphasis on it pre Christ.
            This is even without the overturning of Mosaic law under Jesus. I'll save us both some time and accept your concession now.

            >miracles are not magic
            Incorrect
            >the source of "magic" is demons
            Demons aren't real
            >the source of miracles is God
            God isn't real

            You're telling me that doing something God doesn't condone is totally OK if it happens to be done under his auspices? That seems at least a little subjective.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >I literally just did
            no you pointed to different events and claimed without evidence it means God "changed his mind"

            >That's called changing your mind. If it had been optional you might have a leg to stand on but it never was an option. David wouldn't have shown up with a sack of foreskins as proof of his piety if Yaweh didn't put such emphasis on it pre Christ.
            >This is even without the overturning of Mosaic law under Jesus. I'll save us both some time and accept your concession now
            God is eternal and all knowing, God had knowledge of both old and new covenant eternally, so at no point was there a change.
            >miracles are not magic
            >Incorrect
            ok prove it
            >the source of "magic" is demons
            >Demons aren't real
            ok prove it
            >>the source of miracles is God
            >God isn't real
            ok prove it

            >You're telling me that doing something God doesn't condone is totally OK if it happens to be done under his auspices? That seems at least a little subjective.
            such as?

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >without evidence
            Christos demanding evidence is the funniest shit in the world
            >God says do this or you aren't a good boy
            >Later, God says you're all good boys and don't have to do that thing I asked for
            That's called changing your mind.

            >God is eternal and all knowing, God had knowledge of both old and new covenant eternally, so at no point was there a change.
            Ok so why didn't he just start with the new covenant? Why did he change his mind on the covenants of man?

            >miracles aren't magic
            Yeah they are. Miracles are unnatural occurrences and anything unnatural is by definition magic.

            >PROOFS?!
            I already proved this to you, you're just too fricking stupid to understand it

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Christos demanding evidence is the funniest shit in the world
            not an argument
            >That's called changing your mind.
            knowing the plan from the beginning is not a change
            >Ok so why didn't he just start with the new covenant? Why did he change his mind on the covenants of man?
            well he didn't change his mind he is eternal and all knowing so at no point was there ever a time where he did not intend to have both a new and old covenant
            >Yeah they are. Miracles are unnatural occurrences and anything unnatural is by definition magic.
            ok you just described what you think miracles and magic are you haven't proved your opinions true though
            >I already proved this to you, you're just too fricking stupid to understand it
            no you just stated the position

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >well he didn't change his mind he is eternal and all knowing so at no point was there ever a time where he did not intend to have both a new and old covenant
            Cope

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            no argument?

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >changing your mind isn't changing your mind because I can make up some sophistry to explain it
            >UHM YOU POINTING OUT MY FALLACY ISNT AN ARGUMENT
            Yes it is. You lost. Anything beyond this point is mere damage control on your part.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            weird cope but not an argument in sight

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >not an argument
            Didn't say it was
            >changing your mind isn't changing your mind when you know you're going to change your mind
            Yeah it is. Your saying "NUH UH" and slapping your keyboard doesn't change this fact. I accept your concession.
            >He knew he was gonna change his mind on this so he didn't change his mind because it was already changed
            That's a lovely word salad you got there pal, shame it's a terrible language game that you already lost. Thanks for playing.
            >prove your opinions
            It's not an opinion to say that unnatural occurrences are described as magical or miraculous depending on your perspective but describe the same phenomena.

            >you just stated your position
            I explained it to you three times now and you willfully ignored it and now seek to play a language game to prove that holding two contradictory standards isn't a contradiction because you knew it would change. Telling me 1 will be 1 until I decide it is 2 and they remain the same number because I'm immortal is moronic and so are you for arguing such a point.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Didn't say it was
            ok then you're just whining
            >Yeah it is. Your saying "NUH UH" and slapping your keyboard doesn't change this fact. I accept your concession.
            ok prove it
            >That's a lovely word salad you got there pal, shame it's a terrible language game that you already lost. Thanks for playing.
            not an argument
            >It's not an opinion to say that unnatural occurrences are described as magical or miraculous depending on your perspective but describe the same phenomena.
            prove its not an opinion then

            >I explained it to you three times now and you willfully ignored it and now seek to play a language game to prove that holding two contradictory standards isn't a contradiction because you knew it would change
            burden is on you to show its contradictory

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Not an argument.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            yes asking you to demonstrate your off the wall schizo claims are in fact not an argument but a call for clarification
            guess you have enough brain cells to piece that one together at least lmao

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Not an argument

            I accept your concession

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            yes asking you to clarify your position is in fact not an argument
            now can you clarify or no?

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            I accept your concession

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous
          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            An excellent 'jak

            I will accept your concession

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Two different anons, by the way. Still not an argument.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            again asking you to demonstrate the truth or your claims isn't an argument its an question of epistemology

  2. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    The atheist in your pic has a point. The Catholic church is actually in agreement with him:
    >Deep within his conscience man discovers a law which he has not laid upon himself but which he must obey. Its voice, ever calling him to love and to do what is good and to avoid evil, sounds in his heart at the right moment.... For man has in his heart a law inscribed by God....
    Therefore, we can judge the morality of God by our consciousness, given to us by God himself, and see for ourselves that God is evil.

  3. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why are Christians incapable of grasping the fact that the problem of evil is an internal, not an external critique? I'd it because they have lower IQs?

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Low iqs
      >I’d it

  4. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    The christian argument is just "might makes right".
    >god is sooooooo much more powerful than you so that means his morality is superior to yours!!!

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous
  5. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why can't Christians make a rational argument for morality?
    >Do this because God says so!
    >Or else you'll burn in hell forever! Muhahahaha!
    Literally comic book villain shit.

  6. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    >my own basis and interpretation
    God is evil by the standards of his own Bible

  7. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    How does the concept of a creator make morality objective?
    >God created morality
    Do you realize how this trivializes the inherent meaning of morality? The word becomes totally hollowed, its definition a function, "Something is moral if God says so, except when God says it isn't moral."
    So killing a random person is murder, breaking one of the ten commandments God chose out of all possible actions to denounce. Yet, God sending Satan to kill Job's children? A perfect moral action as it was willed by God.
    So the comic's strawman is actually right. Christians try to derive moral facts from the laws and commandments imparted by God. Yet God himself has violated those apparent moral facts.
    A Christian might counter that God is exempt from the moral facts he has taught us because "the potter hath power over the clay". It's a bad argument because it concedes that anything a creator does with their spawn is justified; Christians inevitably claw it back by any means necessary, generally by obliterating the agency of humans and insisting things like their children, homestead, etc are not their clay because God actually does everything good for them, or that humans can never have a claim of ownership over any thing.
    The argument has another failure point. It's that God created man in the image of God-- understood theologically to include that God made man with the capacity to be a moral agent. But if this is true, then it precludes God and man being subjected to different moral standards.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >So killing a random person is murder, breaking one of the ten commandments God chose out of all possible actions to denounce. Yet, God sending Satan to kill Job's children? A perfect moral action as it was willed by God.
      Morality is for humans, God isn't subject to it
      >b-but this isn't a good argument
      no you just don't like it.
      >It's that God created man in the image of God-- understood theologically to include that God made man with the capacity to be a moral agent. But if this is true, then it precludes God and man being subjected to different moral standards
      sounds like you're misunderstanding the point of human beings being created in the image and likeness of God but we aren't the same as God and thus subject to sin

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >god isn't subject to it
        so in other words rules for thee but not for me, sounds like you guys are just broken housewives making excuse for why your abusive husband breaks the rules he made for you

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          glad it makes you seethe, but no argument?

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >t broken housewife

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          an then they insist their religion isn't a cult

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >God isn't subject to it
        good way to avoid admitting you worship an utterly evil entity

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          >t broken housewife

          see OP's pic, maybe reddit is more your speed

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >dude see "strawman argument that was already refuted"
            simply put there is no reason for me to follow your religion if your own diety can't even be bothered to follow his own rules

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >God doesn't follow his own rules so I don't believe in him!
            what does that have to do with God's existence?
            >uhhhhh

            2/10

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >dude morality all comes from god and he laid out these rules
            >then why does he break them multiple times
            >uuuhhhh he doesn't need to follow his own morality bro he is above it
            again if your own diety doesn't follow the rules of your own religion, why should I follow it

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            God isn't subject to the same rules for humans, just as no other creature is subject to the same rules.
            To try to whine that God committed murder is like saying a bear murdered a fish and is somehow acting immorally

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >bro uh who cares if god just killed off a bunch of people he doesn't need to follow his own rules
            again if he insists on making rules, he should follow them, and since he won't there is no reason to actually care about your religion since its pretty much admiting the only reason you follow them is not because they are mroally right, but because your overlord will put you in his eternal torture dimension for it

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >gain if he insists on making rules, he should follow them
            Why
            >he won't there is no reason to actually care about your religion
            This is "Christianity goes against my sense of what should be therefore no God"
            >the only reason you follow them is not because they are mroally right, but because your overlord will put you in his eternal torture dimension for it
            Its a both and, they are morally right and if you do not live in accordance with God you will be separated from God forever

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >why
            because it shows that he would actually care or said values are morally true, if you encounter somebody who enforces a certain way of living insisting its good, only to then find out he doesn't follow said living you would naturally look down on him and even question his claims due to the fact he himself has shown to not even beleive his own claims
            >this is christianity goes against my sense of what should be
            as opposed to your own religion were you say it goes against what we think should be therefore its satanic, and again due to your own diety not even following his rules, it leads to the problem of your own beliefs are for all intents and purposes subjective only enforced by what is essentially a very trigger happy guy
            >they are morally right
            if they are morally right then how come your own diety doesn't even follow them, this is the problem you are missing, how can you claim god is oh so perfect while he breaks the morals you claim are objective, you can't have it both ways without looking like a somebody who is either so blinded by propoganda he can't see the double standard, or a beaten down person only saying it to avoid the wrath of an easy to anger abuser

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >because it shows that he would actually care or said values are morally true
            How does setting rules for man somehow make him not care?

            >as opposed to your own religion were you say it goes against what we think should be therefore its satanic, and again due to your own diety not even following his rules, it leads to the problem of your own beliefs are for all intents and purposes subjective only enforced by what is essentially a very trigger happy guy
            Rules are made for humans, sin is a move away from God. He cannot sin, we can

            >f they are morally right then how come your own diety doesn't even follow them
            Because they were made for humans

            >how can you claim god is oh so perfect while he breaks the morals you claim are objective, you can't have it both ways without looking like a somebody who is either so blinded by propoganda he can't see the double standard
            It isn't a double standard because God isn't man

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >how does it show he doesn't care
            because it shows they are at best arbitrary
            >he cannot sin
            so if he does it without being sin then how come its a sin for humans
            >they are made for humans
            why exactly, we already established he doesn't really care so its stranger a cosmic diety would care
            >it isn't a double standard
            it is and no amount of saying it doesn't count will change the fact you can't say your morals are objective while saying how your diety breaking said morals is actually a good thing, it just further shows how you are pretty much a cult that will do whatever your leader says no matter how contradictory it is

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >because it shows they are at best arbitrary
            just begging the question
            how is it arbitrary
            >so if he does it without being sin then how come its a sin for humans
            because sin is a move away from God, God cannot be 'not God'
            >why exactly,
            to avoid sin
            >we already established he doesn't really care so its stranger a cosmic diety would care
            in fact it was the opposite that is the case
            >it is a double standard
            ok prove it
            >can't say your morals are objective while saying how your diety breaking
            he doesn't break them, they just do not apply to him. the same way a bear cannot sin because animals are not subject to morality.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >its not arbitrary
            it is when the action you claim is bad is something you do all the time and see no problem with
            >its a move away from god
            how can it be a move away from god, when its something he does
            >to avoid sin
            again how can it really be considered sin if he does it happily
            >ok prove it
            what else is there to prove, it fits the defenition of it by him doing actions he looks down on other doing
            >he doesn't break them, he just doest apply them to himself
            thats called breaking it

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >it is when the action you claim is bad is something you do all the time and see no problem with
            Ok why
            >how can it be a move away from god, when its something he does
            Because he isn't bound by human morality
            >again how can it really be considered sin if he does it happily
            Because he is not a part of the fallen world and subject to sin

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Because he isn't bound by human morality
            Sounds like a petty tyrant that ought to be cast down from the throne of Heaven and destroyed to me. Satan had the right idea.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Edgy

            But if it makes atheistcucks seethe its undoubtedly based

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >uuugggh edgelord
            >unlike my religion were my diety is to cool for morals so killing random people is good when he does it

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            It reminds me of that one passage in the Bible going on about how great God is in the face of the turbulent times the Israelites found themselves in.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Glad it makes you seethe

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >your religion is contradictory and trying to claim it has objective values is silly because your own diety doesn't even follow them
            >dude who cares it totally makes others seethe (proceeds to make several threads seething about how others don't follow said religion)

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >your religion is contradictory and trying to claim it has objective values is silly because your own diety doesn't even follow them
            demonstrate how God not being bound to laws made for man contradicts this

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            because it shows how said values are just him being pissy about his creations doing certain actions that he also freely does instead of the hard values it claims they are, so as stated before, if your own diety doesn't actually follow these moral values, there is no real point in following them beyond the fear he will sperg out at you

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >because it shows how said values are just him being pissy about his creations
            never said that either try again

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Even OP's strawman has the opportunity to objectively criticize God. Because even if we concede the guy can't point to any objective morality, he CAN examine God from the moral reference frame of the Bible. Assuming the Bible's commandments impart moral facts, we observe God acting in violation of those moral facts. So, God is immoral and evil. Or at least, he is not perfectly good.
            Your "solution" to this is to assert that God doesn't have to follow moral facts.
            Which means moral facts are of no meaningful value except as a test of obedience to God. Therefore moral facts are no more important than an arbitrary covenant such as circumcision, and indeed the category of a "moral fact" contains no unique information. Concerns of morality are perfectly identical to concerns of obedience to God. So morality is solely about what God asks us to do, and just like God can end or change a Covenant such as the circumcision, God can change moral facts arbitrarily. Torture is not bad due to it being inherently evil to inflict pain on another, but simply because that is currently what God asks us not to do.
            All that is to say that morality IS subjective, since God's decrees do not rely on any universal truths about good and evil.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Even OP's strawman has the opportunity to objectively criticize God. Because even if we concede the guy can't point to any objective morality, he CAN examine God from the moral reference frame of the Bible. Assuming the Bible's commandments impart moral facts, we observe God acting in violation of those moral facts. So, God is immoral and evil. Or at least, he is not perfectly good.

            Again God isn't subject to the same moral laws humans are.
            >Which means moral facts are of no meaningful value except as a test of obedience to God
            no this isn't christian theology sorry.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >no this isn't christian theology sorry.
            Christian theology is self-contradictory, then. That's the point of this discussion. Sorry

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            ok prove it

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >ok prove it

            How does the concept of a creator make morality objective?
            >God created morality
            Do you realize how this trivializes the inherent meaning of morality? The word becomes totally hollowed, its definition a function, "Something is moral if God says so, except when God says it isn't moral."
            So killing a random person is murder, breaking one of the ten commandments God chose out of all possible actions to denounce. Yet, God sending Satan to kill Job's children? A perfect moral action as it was willed by God.
            So the comic's strawman is actually right. Christians try to derive moral facts from the laws and commandments imparted by God. Yet God himself has violated those apparent moral facts.
            A Christian might counter that God is exempt from the moral facts he has taught us because "the potter hath power over the clay". It's a bad argument because it concedes that anything a creator does with their spawn is justified; Christians inevitably claw it back by any means necessary, generally by obliterating the agency of humans and insisting things like their children, homestead, etc are not their clay because God actually does everything good for them, or that humans can never have a claim of ownership over any thing.
            The argument has another failure point. It's that God created man in the image of God-- understood theologically to include that God made man with the capacity to be a moral agent. But if this is true, then it precludes God and man being subjected to different moral standards.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Even OP's strawman has the opportunity to objectively criticize God. Because even if we concede the guy can't point to any objective morality, he CAN examine God from the moral reference frame of the Bible. Assuming the Bible's commandments impart moral facts, we observe God acting in violation of those moral facts. So, God is immoral and evil. Or at least, he is not perfectly good.

            Again God isn't subject to the same moral laws humans are.
            >Which means moral facts are of no meaningful value except as a test of obedience to God
            no this isn't christian theology sorry.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            actually it was this one

            >So killing a random person is murder, breaking one of the ten commandments God chose out of all possible actions to denounce. Yet, God sending Satan to kill Job's children? A perfect moral action as it was willed by God.
            Morality is for humans, God isn't subject to it
            >b-but this isn't a good argument
            no you just don't like it.
            >It's that God created man in the image of God-- understood theologically to include that God made man with the capacity to be a moral agent. But if this is true, then it precludes God and man being subjected to different moral standards
            sounds like you're misunderstanding the point of human beings being created in the image and likeness of God but we aren't the same as God and thus subject to sin

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Morality is for humans, God isn't subject to it
        >God isn't evil, he's just not subject to being good

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          >le epik maymay text
          2/10

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          Based. BTFO

          >le epik maymay text
          2/10

          Cringe and hypocritical

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >sounds like you're misunderstanding the point of human beings being created in the image and likeness of God

        Hold on this brings up another interesting point. Why did God create humans? I've read through the bible and the reason seems to be to praise the creator of the universe but why does he need or want that?

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Hold on this brings up another interesting point. Why did God create humans?
          Because Love is part of his divine attributes and an aspect of that love is to share it with others

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Love
            >Loves his creations so much he dooms them to eternal hellfire if they don't do exactly what he says and worship him every day
            Sounds like some sick definition of love.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            well you aren't the arbiter of what is or isn't love so because it doesn't fit your special snowflake definition is meaningless try again

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      a TL;DR:
      >If god's will makes morality objective, then morality is by definition subjective, because god can say what things are moral or not.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Classical theism posits that God is transcendent and operates outside human understanding and morality, meaning the moral standards applicable to humans might not apply to God. God's nature, being beyond full human comprehension, may operate on principles of goodness and justice that we can't fully grasp.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Sounds like bullshit cope to me.

  8. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    >The ol' reliable Christian argument of "if it weren't for the Bible, I'd be out there raping and killing people this very moment!"

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >*kills and rapes millions of fellow Christians and then millions more non-Christians anyway*
      SHIIIEEEEET

  9. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Just a reminder that while YHWY delivered the Promised Land to Israel (by genociding the Canaanites) he was also actively aware and planning the Holocaust

  10. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    The morally correct is what is good for our survival as a species, simple as.
    But it is true that at the en we're driven by emotions, for example the intense urge I have right now to smash your fricking putrid head into pulp, because I'm so fricking sick of your shit.

  11. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    >atheists only capable of arguing from emotion
    > god exists because this old book that my parents/society taught me says so!

  12. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Seeing as how we have knowledge of good and evil via Adam and Eve we have the ability to know good and evil. You could just as easily change the wording of your pic to

    >If God existed, He is good! By good I mean my own basis and interpretation of what good is, since without the concept of a creator, morality is subjective.

  13. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    For me the meaning of life is the pursuit of happiness without taking the happiness from others and helping others to have happiness. Happiness would be the basic biological, psychological, social etc needs.
    And morality comes from this.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      For me the meaning of life is making atheistcucks seethe

  14. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    1.why should I care about Hebrew religion mixed with European Hellenistic thought? I'm not even white or israeli

    2. If "because God said so" and "it's the word of God" is accepted as a valid argument, I would have to be consistent and accept that from any other religion as well. It cheapens discourse into "nuh uh" back and forths.

    3. Why didn't Christianity remain one united church? If it is the infallible word of God then there is no room for interpretation. I cannot entertain your beliefs at face value when there are thousands of different groups who have splintered into weird stuff like Israelism and Mormonism.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >1.why should I care about Hebrew religion mixed with European Hellenistic thought? I'm not even white or israeli
      what does ethnicity have to do with caring about truth?

      >. If "because God said so" and "it's the word of God" is accepted as a valid argument, I would have to be consistent and accept that from any other religion as well. It cheapens discourse into "nuh uh" back and forths.
      sure but no other religion can demonstrate themselves correct.
      >3. Why didn't Christianity remain one united church?
      pride and delusion
      > If it is the infallible word of God then there is no room for interpretation. I cannot entertain your beliefs at face value when there are thousands of different groups who have splintered into weird stuff like Israelism and Mormonism.
      this is the "there are different opinions so there's no way to see what is true" fallacy

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >what does ethnicity have to do with caring about truth?
        A lot, considering your very Bible includes passages that emphasize the difference between races. Jesus himself even states at some point that he initially only came for the children of the house of Israel (not goys). Come on homie.
        >sure but no other religion can demonstrate themselves correct.
        Your demonstration involves thumping your index finger on your book. You will find that other religious people too have fingers, and they are capable of pointing to their books as well.
        >pride and delusion
        Alright, fair enough considering what Ive read about various reformers.
        >there are different opinions so there's no way to see what is true" is a fallacy
        So what is true then? I often hear that the Christian religion is obviously true and that non believers refuse to convert out of malice and rejection rather than blind ignorance. If that's the case then the faith would never have fractured.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          >A lot, considering your very Bible includes passages that emphasize the difference between races. Jesus himself even states at some point that he initially only came for the children of the house of Israel (not goys). Come on homie
          Ok but israelites playing a role in the old covenant has nothing to do with who can come to God
          >Your demonstration involves thumping your index finger on your book.
          No it doesn't, at no point did i do that to justify Christianity
          >So what is true then? I often hear that the Christian religion is obviously true and that non believers refuse to convert out of malice and rejection rather than blind ignorance. If that's the case then the faith would never have fractured
          How do you know faith would never have fractured then?

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            What's your justification for the authenticity Christianity?

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Jay Dyer winning arguments against every other religion

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous
          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >How do you know faith would never have fractured then
            Because the fact that it did betrays the argument that evidence for your beliefs are as apparent as the sun rising. I see it all the time in threads here anon. Unless youre a newbie there's no denying it.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Because the fact that it did betrays the argument that evidence for your beliefs are as apparent as the sun rising

            Never said it was

  15. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Name the rules in the Bible you follow but personally disagree with.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      They won't because this is a troll thread. At the most they will say

      >but that's not MY covenant

  16. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    So the only things in the universe that god subjects to his arbitrary morality is humanity? I say arbitrary because if he himself doesn't follow his own rules they can't really mean much. So he does whatever, animals do whatever, but we're expected to walk a razer blade with the consequences being a total rejection of life and condemnation to eternal suffering? And you think this being is good? Or if he's beyond good and evil do you just think he's nothing, and you follow out of fear, knowing the amoral entity could destroy you on a wim and you yourself would not be able to morally object?

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >if he himself doesn't follow his own rules they can't really mean much.
      How exactly are you deriving value from that?

      >So he does whatever, animals do whatever, but we're expected to walk a razer blade with the consequences being a total rejection of life and condemnation to eternal suffering?
      No quite the opposite you can choose to be with God or not he'll give you whatever you pick
      >And you think this being is good?
      Yes he created us and gives us the option to be with him forever

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        If the rules had inherent value then there would be value in the creative being of the universe following that morality itself, since it's behaviors are perfect. If not killing others was a law that was inherently good, then it stands that it would be good for the creator as well. Since god doesn't live in regards to its own rules and is still considered perfect that signals the rules are arbitrary, subjected to us as a test to see if the mice can be trained.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          >If the rules had inherent value then there would be value in the creative being of the universe following that morality itself
          Ok why is the true

  17. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    isn't human morality already relative, even with religion?

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Religion is just subjective human morality except your subject opinion on moral stances is followed by, "because God".

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Yes clearly.
        Reminder that on those intelligence tests that show intelligence is negatively correlated with intelligence, one of the specific details is nearly ALL people of low intelligence are religious.

        I mean objectively one can observe society and see its values and write it down, which is the bible, it's just a guidance for wayward philosophers. Subjectively everything is relative to you, who you're dealing with and the particular situation that arises.

        Would the Christian man be frozen in his faith to kill a man to protect himself or his family?

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Yes clearly.
      Reminder that on those intelligence tests that show intelligence is negatively correlated with intelligence, one of the specific details is nearly ALL people of low intelligence are religious.

  18. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    The basis of my morality as an atheist is that I enjoy making others happy and acknowledge that everyone is their own, autonomous individual with their respective merits. Furthermore, if you violate the autonomy of others then you deserve to have your own autonomy violated. The golden rule, basically. Treat others as you want to be treated.

    But morality is indeed completely subjective, if largely determined by our upbringing and societal expectations. We can see that this is the case by examining history and the ways in which moral behavior has changed over time.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      We can see it in our world right now. When Ukraine was invaded people went from "Punch all Nazi's" to "Hey now, it's a complicated histroy." pretty quick.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      The basis of your "morality" is that you have redefined a religious concept to suit your own ends. It's not morality. In reality you can only be trusted to do whatever makes you feel good, which will not always be the right thing.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >In reality you can only be trusted to do whatever makes you feel good
        You're right and that's fine. Everyone is ultimately motivated by what they perceive to be in their own best interest. Hence the lie of heaven to convince people that tithing to the church/killing infidels/et cetera is in their best interest.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          So it's good to torture little children to death if it makes me feel good.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Killing a child isn't inherently worse than killing an adult. I personally find it repulsive and would enjoy torturing a baby-killer to death.

            Historically, Christians and other Abrahamics certainly killed plenty of babies.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            According to you it's not inherently worse than eating a cookie, either

            Also, you keep asking "is it good". That's a meaningless question. Good and evil don't exist.

            So it's not evil to torture little children to death.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >So it's not evil to torture little children to death.
            It's simply an act, as all things are. An act that (most) societies would deem cruel and inhumane and punish you for. Unless you're an ancient Roman pater familias, for example, in which case it's your Gods-given right to kill any child born into your family if you wish it.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            then why are you throwing a tantum about it happening

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Who's throwing a tantrum? I dislike baby killing because that's one less person to pay for my social security later on in life. Ergo, preventing baby killing is in my best interest.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            So it's no worse to torture little children than it is to wipe your nose. Behold, the rational atheist worldview, perfectly able to give us morals. And you wonder why society is in the state it's in. It's Christ or chaos.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Christ has been fine with killing plenty of babies in the right context. Like Cathar babies, and Muslim babies.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            War atrocities did not occur because they were sanctioned by scripture.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            You sure? Because the Catholic Pope is supposed to have a direct line to the big man upstairs, or whatever Catholics believe, and he said that killing those babies got all of your sins forgiven. Seems pretty suspect to me.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            > Because the Catholic Pope is supposed to have a direct line to the big man upstairs, or whatever Catholics believe, and he said that killing those babies got all of your sins forgiven.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Also, see Herod's Massacre of the Innocents for a scriptural example.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Also, you keep asking "is it good". That's a meaningless question. Good and evil don't exist.

  19. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    God isnt evil. The one in the Bible is tho. We know this because God gifted us understanding of justice and goodness innately. So we know lighting your children on fire for eternity for disobedience isn't good or just, for example.

  20. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Do Christians really believe that a man turned water to wine, walked on water etc? Are your brains ok? Or you're just that naive. Please answer, religious people

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      You do understand that our position is that all of creation was done by an all powerful God right? If you can understand that concept why are miracles so hard for you

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Because there is no evidence?

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          no evidence for atheism i suppose

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            There doesn't need to be evidence for the nonexistence of something until its existence is proven. But I'm a theist anyway.

  21. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    >why can't they simply provide a basis for their morality
    Cause they look like this

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Look at these Chads

  22. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Their morality is downstream from protestant christianity.

  23. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    The basis of morality is to consider the welfare of all living beings. The fewer living beings you take into account, the less moral you are. Theists are basically immoral because they only take into account God.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >The basis of morality is to consider the welfare of all living beings
      Why? Where did this moral duty come from?

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Empathy probably, something alien to you

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          More subjective emotion

          [...]
          There isn't any objective morality in the Bible, God's word changes from book to book, and the new testament has virtually nothing to do with the old testament. God constantly changes his mind throughout the Bible and is one of the most capricious, inconsistent deities in all of religious history. Not to mention the constant schisms, heresies and disagreement making Christians themselves over interpretations of the Bible.
          >I believe it's wrong to torture children to death
          Yahweh doesn't.

          Everything you said is bullshit

          Because like other normal people, it disgusts me on a painful visceral level. When you think of torturing children, you don’t get a visceral negative feeling?

          Ok, but why is it wrong?

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            I asked you a question.
            Do you not get a visceral negative emotion at the idea of torturing children? Because if you don’t you are seriously fricked up and you are why we have prisons and execution as legal punishment.
            Fricking Christians..

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Do you not get a visceral negative emotion at the idea of torturing children?
            It's irrelevant, if that's all we have. Now answer my question. Why is it wrong to torture children?

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            So you don’t get a visceral negative emotion at the thought of torturing children.
            Well normal people do and that’s why they say it’s wrong.
            Christians are disgusting pigs.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            ok but all you're doing is restating the position
            so again why is it wrong?

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            You are a sociopath. You lack the emotional and social ability to have a moral compass. That’s why the only motivation you can understand for moral behavior is external punishment and reward. We have punishment to deal with people like you.
            It is that simple.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            all you're doing is asserting the same tired old positions
            so again why is it wrong?

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Well normal people do and that’s why they say it’s wrong.
            Is it actually wrong?

  24. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    When will Christians stop pretending objective morality exists? They don't actually believe in it, no one actually believes in objective morality. It's literally just a fake argument meant to attack atheists.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      how is it a fake argument

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Because Christian morality has constantly changed with the times of the society it serves.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          Historically false

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          Other people having differing views within Christianity doesn't somehow negative objective morality.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >objective morality is when it's subject to the whims of man
            I'm gonna have an aneurysm

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            not what was said at all

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        I believe it's wrong to torture children to death. You don't.

        There isn't any objective morality in the Bible, God's word changes from book to book, and the new testament has virtually nothing to do with the old testament. God constantly changes his mind throughout the Bible and is one of the most capricious, inconsistent deities in all of religious history. Not to mention the constant schisms, heresies and disagreement making Christians themselves over interpretations of the Bible.
        >I believe it's wrong to torture children to death
        Yahweh doesn't.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          >There isn't any objective morality in the Bible, God's word changes from book to book, and the new testament has virtually nothing to do with the old testament. God constantly changes his mind throughout the Bible and is one of the most capricious, inconsistent deities in all of religious history. Not to mention the constant schisms, heresies and disagreement making Christians themselves over interpretations of the Bible.
          ok can you cite any of the moronic points you just made? because you're talking out your ass right now

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            More subjective emotion
            [...]
            Everything you said is bullshit
            [...]
            Ok, but why is it wrong?

            You've never read the Bible have you? It's pretty clear upon reading it that the God depicted in the Bible is not only evil by his own standards but constantly changing his mind about his "laws" that mortals have to follow. There is no such thing as objective morality in Judaism or Christianity, this is a basic fact about those religions. Every Christian argument about morality is just a cope.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >You've never read the Bible have you? It's pretty clear upon reading it that the God depicted in the Bible is not only evil by his own standards but constantly changing his mind about his "laws" that mortals have to follow. There is no such thing as objective morality in Judaism or Christianity, this is a basic fact about those religions. Every Christian argument about morality is just a cope.

            again can you please cite your sources because you're making things up at this point

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      I believe it's wrong to torture children to death. You don't.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        He does and so do I, you only don’t do it because you don’t want to go to hell and want to go to heaven, I actually personally think it’s wrong. Even reading you typing the action disturbs me.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          >I actually personally think it’s wrong
          Why?

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Because like other normal people, it disgusts me on a painful visceral level. When you think of torturing children, you don’t get a visceral negative feeling?

  25. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Where did this dumb belief come from that morality can only be objective if there is a God?

  26. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Religious fundamentalists (possibly in this very thread) would torture and rape and kill children if they thought they could get away with it, as long as "God" sanctions it. They would think it's morally correct as well because, "God almighty is all good muh God's plan." It's truly vile and I'm glad religion around the world is gradually fading away. Atheism is the only position with supporting evidence and only a secular society can advance humanity to the stars and towards a utopia.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >only a secular society can advance humanity to the stars and towards a utopia

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Atheism is the only position with supporting evidence
      I hate fundamentalist christcucks as much as the next guy but cmon. Athiests have LESS evidence than Christians do for their beliefs. You can’t ‘prove’ that something you can’t see doesn’t exist. Lack of evidence =/= evidence of absence, nerd

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Athiests have LESS evidence than Christians do for their beliefs.
        Big if true

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Is there a correlation between race and IQ?

  27. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    God is real, I just don't like him.

  28. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    All morality is relative by definition.

    Objective morality cannot be based on particular opinions or perceptions, but such a thing is non-existent: for all forms of morality were/are based on the particular opinions or perceptions of a third party.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      this is only true if you're presupposing atheism. if not then in Christian theology objective morality exists

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Being Atheist or Christian does not change the statement at all.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          the arguments presupposes atheism. so if you're going to presuppose atheism and analysis objective morality I'm going to presuppose theism and do the same.
          in that case objective morality exists in Christian theology

  29. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Absolute morals come from God
    >It’s wrong to murder someone
    >It’s wrong to assist someone murder someone else
    >God assists murderers every day by letting them breathe
    >God not only condones murder but actively takes part in them, and in some case actually murders people (Sodom and Gomorrah, for instance)
    God is evil according to his own morals. I don’t believe in absolute morals, but if they did exist, then God surely does not abide by them, nor does it make sense that morals come from an amoral being like that

  30. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    >christians explaining the hypocrisy of the creator of objective morality

  31. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    I wish the Christian god had a name other than 'God' so we could discern what atheists are talking about when they say 'God'. They usually seem to be upset with Christianity more than focused on whether there was a creator of the universe or not, which are two separate concepts. Are you an atheist or are you just anti-Christian or anti-religion?

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >I wish the Christian god had a name other than 'God'
      Jesus Christ

  32. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Christians: Here's a reformed israeli religion that was a reactionary refutation of all the ideologes propagating suffering throughout the known world. The contract of social conduct that the New Testament espouses appears to benefit all people generally and encourages stable and ethical personal conduct. Everlasting life nonwithstanding. Read the Bible.

    Atheists: Uhm I read a bunch of problematic ooc quotes on the internet and basically YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO, MOM! I'm much too enlightened to fall victim to such hypocritical fables! I much prefer to just be either an apathetic nihilist malcontent or a midwit contrarian that would've been a Christian if my Dad didn't piss me off. Excuse me while I check my blood sugar with my $4,000 glucose meter and pay back interest to my $235,000 hospital bill

    White Atheists are the puppet of the Canaanite Tribe.

  33. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Science points to atheism, but I don't understand why atheists can't see that it is a bad thing.

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