>christians tell me young earth creationism is new. >believed them

>christians tell me young earth creationism is new
>believed them
>look up what people actually believed back then about the age of the earth
>augustine who is often cited here with “he said it’s all an allegory” actually just said that the six day creation was a metaphor, not the age
>he elaborates that Christians shouldn’t stick by any hard claims because it would discredit the faith, not because he had some message from god telling him the actual answer

>also learn that an archbishop man named John Ussher used the timeline in the Bible to settle on a creation date of 4004 BC in 1650, and this was widely accepted in the English speaking world at the time

Why do Christians lie so much?
why can’t they be honest and truthful about what they believe and even what Christians used to believe?

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  1. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    a simple misunderstanding, 1650 is very new and innovative compared to the actual bible or early church. Just because it predates america's founding doesn't mean it was a long time ago

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Anon I can’t find anything saying that the general population of Christian Europe and church authorities claiming the Earth was any more than a few thousand years old until the past few hundred years.

      That 1650 date was when an exact age was established, it’s not like they thought it was 4.5 billion years old until then.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        You mean, they didn't think it was 1 million or 2 million or 4 billion years old? That's probably true. I'm not convinced it was a major topic of discussion at all, seems kind of idiotic

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          >That's probably true
          Yup, the Christians here are lying, thinking the world is only a few thousand years old is not new, it is only recently that we discovered earth is millions and then billions of years old.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            They didn't think either one. They mostly thought it was "really old"
            you've read Watership Down? Do you recall how rabbits are unable to count past five, and any bigger number is "hrair"? It's like that. How many years can you really comprehend?

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Calendars and keeping track of how many days and years passed has been done for thousands of years old.
            Are you lying or do you just not know history?

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            there's a big difference between tracing your ancestors and figuring out how old the earth is. You were asking about christians, they mostly believed it was a really long time. Pagans had all kinds of weird literal numbers

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            The Earth is not "100% for a fact" billions of years old - it's an assumption based on scientific evidence. You can say the same about the Earth being only thousands of years old, too. At the end of the day, only God knows.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            lo

            YEC comes out of America which is a fountain of heresies.

            The guy who came up with 4004 BC was Irish and this was a popular idea at the time. These days yes you’re right it is unfortunately the poor and uneducated people in my country who think that these days.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      1650 is the early modern period and after the protestant reformation where people decided that the bible was the sole source of authority rather than the catholic church. The catholic church never made any real claims about the age of the earth but some protestants thought that there would be secret wisdom contained in the bible the revealed something about the world so some dude calculated it upon getting his hands on a one fresh off the Gutenberg press and then some people decided this literal who had determined the age of the earth. In most cases in needs to be understood that Christians believing in "the bible" itself is "new" in the grand scheme of Christianity.

  2. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    >and this was widely accepted in the English speaking world at the time
    James Hutton, the Scottish geologist, debunked within a hundred years, it was totally fringe outside of puritanical circles

    >Hutton advanced the idea that the physical world's remote history can be inferred from evidence in present-day rocks. Through his study of features in the landscape and coastlines of his native Scottish lowlands, such as Salisbury Crags or Siccar Point, he developed the theory that geological features could not be static but underwent continuing transformation over indefinitely long periods of time. From this he argued, in agreement with many other early geologists, that the Earth could not be young. He was one of the earliest proponents of what in the 1830s became known as uniformitarianism, the science which explains features of the Earth's crust as the outcome of continuing natural processes over the long geologic time scale. Hutton also put forward a thesis for a 'system of the habitable Earth' proposed as a deistic mechanism designed to keep the world eternally suitable for humans,[4] an early attempt to formulate what today might be called one kind of anthropic principle.
    this is in the 1760s btw

    So yes, Young Earth Creationism as entertained by a substantial proportion of the population of a country as dogma is an extremely recent phenomenon, coterminous with the Scopes Monkey Trial of 1926 - that's when American fundamentalists started being mainstream

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Guess what anon, I’m talking about the church and the Christian population, Not geologists

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah and the stance of organized Christian institutions on the matter is "it's not relevant", with ecumenical protestant denominations and Catholics being de facto Theistic Evolutionists
        Not certain of the official position of Orthodox or Coptic churches, but the only denominations that take the "the earth is only 6000 years old" spiel seriously are American evangelicals and wacko cults like Mormons and JWs

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          Stunning that you can’t grasp that I’m talking about the part history and not now

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            I do understand what you're talking about, and as I've been trying to make clear over and over again, but which you refuse to acknowledge is that it didn't matter. They didn't know, and they couldn't know, so they didn't care.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >it doesn’t matter that they were wrong
            It’s weird that your book of truth is actually false.

  3. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Genesis is liturgical. Not a scientific document. If you want the "oldest" purpose of the text, that is it. It is mirroring Israel's Feast of Tabernacles, which was a 7 Day Feast that was dedicated to the temple of God. Secondly, it's more concerned as a polemic against paganism and common ideas of the time in surrounding regions. Not atheism. Nobody cared about atheism.
    For example, it refuses to name the Sun and Stars and Moon and just calls them objects/lights in the sky. They're not gods but creations of God. This is Israelite religion at it's core. Monotheistic concerns vs polytheist.
    Secondly, it's concerned with upholding the idea of a Just God, a loving God. In Mesopotamia, they're "garden" story had the gods build it as a pleasure zone for themselves. While they created men as just jannies to maintain it and serve them. But in Genesis, they dab a bit on this and invert it: The Garden is created for man instead. And instead of being a pathetic janny, he's given dignity beyond Mesopotamians wildest dreams: Man is created in the image of God. This is something only kings reserved for themselves to tyrannize their subjects, but Genesis pushed that humanity in general was meant for this dignity.
    Fast forward 4000 years and people debate and fight over things these writers had no concern with. Whether they're evangelicals or atheists, they're hung up on Science. This is irrelevant in the original context. The polemics are against pagan notions and notions of power and royalty..

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Forget the word science in your vocabulary for a second, it makes claims about earth and the sky and how they came to be.
      Furthermore I’m specifically discussing the age of the earth here.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        You can discuss it all you want. But the bible isn't concerned with it. Using it to get those kind of answers won't help you. Even the numbers are not meant to be used that way. They're symbolic. Seven is the number symbolizing completeness, for example. Not an actual 7 in the mathematical sense.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          >But the bible isn't concerned with it.
          That’s weird because it puts a lot of words into how much time passes and gives numbers

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Numerology is intensely symbolic in semitic cultures. Look at the constant reuse of the number "40" - that number wasn't discrete, it was the default marker for "a lot". It might have rained for forty days and forty nights, but that forty might well have been a week or a year. Specifics are totally irrelevant. In fact your very conception of time is totally irrelevant. Nobody in the world had the same sort of mentality regarding time and calendars until accurate, regular, portable timepieces were invented in the 17th century, and the gas and electric lighting facilities to make use of them after sunset and before dawn were widespread in the 19th. Everything was relative, and for the overwhelming majority of people, life stopped when the sun went down and didn't start until it came back up. Most people didn't even reliably know the year they were born in until the 20th century, and even then there are conflicting results with certain individuals - and this is in first world countries like the United States and Great Britain.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >people in general including the priesthood didn’t have a concept of time of how many days had passed until recently
            Christians lie so much it’s unreal.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            I'm quoting the historian Eugen Weber, an avowed agnostic.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            That’s great anon, turns out the calendar is at least as old as Rome and people fully understood the concept of days passing

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            I didn't say nobody knew what a calendar was you lying strawmanning turbohomosexual, get some glasses you illiterate pajeet

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >no calendars until the 20th century
            This is the level you need to stoop to to promote Christianity.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >people in general including the priesthood didn’t have a concept of time of how many days had passed until recently
            Christians lie so much it’s unreal.

            >including the priesthood
            >no calendars until the 20th century
            wow, for some reason I can't find where he said that in his post, crazy huh?

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Nobody in the world had the same sort of mentality regarding time and calendars until the 17th century
            This should genuinely get you banned from a history board

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Even the numbers are not meant to be used that way. They're symbolic.
          You’re projecting your own beliefs onto the authors.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >liturgical
      As in "literuature" as in, the creation of writing.

      In the beginning was God, and for was the Word, and he was with the word, etc etc. It's about the creation of language (holy spirit). I'm surprised all these "science lovers" can't figure it out. It's almost like they never actually read the book.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah I read the book anon that’s why I know you’re full of shit. Genesis isn’t about the creation of writing, you’re just retconning the story

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >God was the Word*

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          Oh damn I didn’t realize the god of Christianity is actually just a metaphor for writing.

  4. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    >archbishop man named John Ussher used the timeline in the Bible to settle on a creation date of 4004
    This would be the creation of written language, as that is what the creation story in genesis is talking about. The age of the "earth" is the age of "written language."

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      No as in the creation story of genesis where everything is created.

  5. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    lying is more commonly associated with Islam

  6. 7 months ago
    Radiochan

    YEC comes out of America which is a fountain of heresies.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      What's your religion, Radiochan?

  7. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    >In the absence of scientific evidence to the contrary, people believed creation myths
    >At the same time, they were open to the idea that maximal autistic literalism is not the only way to read scripture, so pivoting to other cosmological views wasn't an issue.
    >Galileo, Copernicus, Kepler, Newton, and every other pre-20th century scientist you have ever heard of were devout Christians.
    >In the 20th century, Lemaître was a Catholic priest
    >Internet atheists still cling to the idea that every Christian ever was a strip mall revival caricature despite endless historical evidence that this is nonsense
    >They can only interpret Amazing Atheist podcats from 2006 as the literal revealed truth that must never be questioned or their entire world will collapse
    >mfw

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