A question I have about Christianity

I realise that the tone of what I've said may come across as snarky or as if I'm trying to argue against something, but I'm genuinely questioning my belief and this is a question I've had for some time. I know I'm definitely the first person to ask this, but I've never heard it before or heard any explanations.

Does God have the knowledge and foresight to see how his words will be interpreted in the future? If yes, then why didn’t he re-word some of his more ambiguous phrasing to be more specific and prevent misinterpretations? For example, the Great Schism of 1054 between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches was caused by (among other things such as whether the bishop of Rome [the pope] had precedence over all other bishops or not), a disagreement over the ‘filioque’, a Latin word meaning ‘and from the Son’. The Catholics believed that the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father and from the Son, while the Orthodox believe that the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father alone. A more recent example is disagreement between fundamentalists and more moderate Christians about whether the words of the Bible should be interpreted more literally or more metaphorically. One of these sides must be wrong, yet God never clarified which parts of his instruction should be taken literally and which should be taken as allegory.

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  1. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    I realise that the Nicene Creed, which the filioque issue comes from, isn't in the Bible, but my point is that couldn't God clear up these theological debates if he wanted to?

  2. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Time for someone to read Kierkegaard

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      Could you expand on this? Do I need to stop questioning the specifics and just think about faith? But that seems wrong to me, wouldn't God want me to pursue the 'right' belief?

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        Why do you think he cares? Shouldn’t you do it for yourself?

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          God seems to care inasmuch as that I'll be punished if I make the wrong choice.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Says who? What is a wrong choice?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            The fact that you can get sent to either Heaven or Hell based on how you live must mean that there are some wrong and right choices, right?

            Granted but how come it came to your mind that God has any obligation to make anything clear to humans? In fact, does God have any obligation towards human beings at all? You cannot forget how anything which happens to humans, no matter how good or awful it is, whether it's Ancient Egypt, ISIS, Joseph Stalin or tuberculosis happens exactly according to God's will. But we can't possibly see what the will of God is. The little that we know is a meager amount of information compared to the totality of God, whichever denomination you are. This is barely even a question in the sense that you can't question God's Will because that is the whole point of Christianity in the first place.

            Well, I guess that's my issue, that God expects my full faith while explaining little. I wonder why it all has to be so hidden, I know that if we knew everything that God knows then we'd be like God, but it wouldn't take that much, just some more clarity.

            God is beyond words. Find a real religion.

            I have thought about this, what religions would you say are beyond words? Neoplatonism?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            How is that a fact you fool. Life is hard enough, don’t torture yourself. There are better ways to know God but they require courage not belief.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            I think you need to replace that “but” with an “and”

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Depends if you have the courage, most people don’t, so they simply believe.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            To me, Heaven and Hell was one of the most basic ideas in Christianity, that if you're bad you go to Hell and if you're good (and have faith) you go to Heaven, is this not so important in your view. I'm being genuine. I'm not sure what you mean by courage rather than belief being needed to know God.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            It means courage to let go of silly ideas and see things exactly as they are however difficult that may be.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            I'm not sure exactly how to do that but I'll try

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Denominational semantics will pass away, but God's Word will not pass away.

            You don't really understand Christianity if you think "do good I get reward" and "do bad and I will be punished" is the religion boiled down.
            You don't need to be a Christian to understand the existence of moral law.
            Don't pay attention to your works and how you'll be rewarded or punished accordingly. Pay attention to the Gospel, and everything else about your standing with God will be figured out.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Not Neoplatonism. It’s just philosophical Christianity. Find something from the East.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            From the little I know Buddhism also seems to rely a lot on words (the suttras and such), what else is there?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            They are instructions not gospel.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            No, Buddhism evolved Zen for a reason, as Buddha definitely saw the limitations of words. He also said his teaching was not a divine revelation and should not be taken on faith: you should test his words instead. Some people say he was a philosopher due to this.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >The fact that you can get sent to either Heaven or Hell based on how you live must mean that there are some wrong and right choices, right?
            If you truly follow the bible, then you know that nothing you can or will do gets you to heaven. Jesus died for your sins and it is up to you to accept his gift. Many people don't realise it and it is a fundamental thing to our faith.
            So no, it's not based on your life.

            "Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'" John 14:6

            Ephesians 2:8-9
            "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."

  3. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    God is beyond words. Find a real religion.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      That would imply all human religion to be useless, however lol. Of course God is beyond Words - that doesn't mean he can't speak. He is the Creator of speech and the inventor of words.

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        See how dumb it makes you. God doesn’t live in a book, moron.

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          Someday, I hope for your sake, you'll realize just how stupid that response was.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Oh but the word is God, right?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            That's a far deeper revelation than any man can comprehend. That you think it a simple matter shows how little thought you've given it.

            What a pathetic LARP.

            >seething of the damned continues
            It really is telling, just how enraged the condemned get at our faith. The mere fact of our unshakeable belief is enough to prompt endless seething.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Your a stubborn mule misguiding OP with nonsense.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            "Thanks be to God who gave me the sense to know when I am right." ~ President John Adams

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Why don’t you put it in your own words? Because it sounds ridiculous.

            >god told me im right

            How do you have the audacity to call anyone childish?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            I call childish men childish. I gave an answer to OP to a question he asked for. You have misread nearly every post I've made, hurled insult after insult, screeched and cried like a monkey in a tree at my belief. And yet of course my faith is childish. Christ said unless we come to Him with faith like a child's we will not see Heaven. Thank God my faith is childish!!

            Yet, of course I call you childish. I can scarcely imagine a more childish person on this Earth. As I've said before, I've grown tired of chiding you. It's time to grow up.

            https://i.imgur.com/C7GeI1s.jpg

            I realise that the tone of what I've said may come across as snarky or as if I'm trying to argue against something, but I'm genuinely questioning my belief and this is a question I've had for some time. I know I'm definitely the first person to ask this, but I've never heard it before or heard any explanations.

            Does God have the knowledge and foresight to see how his words will be interpreted in the future? If yes, then why didn’t he re-word some of his more ambiguous phrasing to be more specific and prevent misinterpretations? For example, the Great Schism of 1054 between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches was caused by (among other things such as whether the bishop of Rome [the pope] had precedence over all other bishops or not), a disagreement over the ‘filioque’, a Latin word meaning ‘and from the Son’. The Catholics believed that the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father and from the Son, while the Orthodox believe that the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father alone. A more recent example is disagreement between fundamentalists and more moderate Christians about whether the words of the Bible should be interpreted more literally or more metaphorically. One of these sides must be wrong, yet God never clarified which parts of his instruction should be taken literally and which should be taken as allegory.

            OP, I hope you can see quite clearly from this man's behavior just how virulently Satan wishes to deter you from the LORD. The mere thought of belief in Christ is an affront to these darklings. Yet, had you begun this thread with any other [false] god or system, they would have showered you with their ""wisdom"" and ""love"" because they are slaves of the world system and their god is Satan. Seek answers in the Word and in prayer and fasting to the Lord. You do not need to rely on me or them or anyone else. Just pursue God with your whole heart and He will make Himself known to you.

            You will never have all the answers until that day we are perfected in the image of God, but you will not need them either. You will know God, and that is all the answer you need.

  4. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Granted but how come it came to your mind that God has any obligation to make anything clear to humans? In fact, does God have any obligation towards human beings at all? You cannot forget how anything which happens to humans, no matter how good or awful it is, whether it's Ancient Egypt, ISIS, Joseph Stalin or tuberculosis happens exactly according to God's will. But we can't possibly see what the will of God is. The little that we know is a meager amount of information compared to the totality of God, whichever denomination you are. This is barely even a question in the sense that you can't question God's Will because that is the whole point of Christianity in the first place.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      >The whole point of Jesus in the first place
      Everything he says is right but no one reads their Bible more than once except the Catholics who read it every day for power in this world over me.... Ugh tbh..... Really not liking being the God of this world tbh

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      I am a demon Christian not really needing Jesus but still following his camp more or less

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        No, you're in darkness even now.

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          Why so judgemental, who are you?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            I don't have to judge you. God has judged you. I can merely tell based on your own confession that you are in darkness because God has made it clear through His Word and His revelation of Himself in Christ what it means to walk in the light.

            Who am I? I am a recipient of eternal life through the grace of God made manifest in the Messiah Jesus. Confidence in this absolute fact never fails to make the servants of darkness seethe.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            What a pathetic LARP.

  5. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    God has perfect knowledge. The reason for division is Satan - as the Word says:

    "Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them. For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Christ but of their own appetites; and by their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting."

    Just follow Christ. God weighs the hearts.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      Total bullshit. Christianity creates the division. Dualistic religions are false.

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        >empty screeching of the damned
        Paul was speaking about division within the church to people in the church, silly reactionary.

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          Too dumb to understand. Try reading an actual book.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            It makes it easier to condescend imagining your interlocuter is uneducated, does it? I prefer to imagine myself contending with strong adversaries, personally. There's little sport in bullying, after all.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yet you have no idea what a dualistic religion is.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >continues to imagine simple concepts are difficult
            I've grown tired of chiding you, young man. It's time to grow up a little.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Why are Christians so condescending?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            What choice do you give? Should I award this petulant tantrum with honor? "Answer a fool according to his folly lest he be wise in his own eyes." No. I will answer you as your foolishness demands. If you wish to be treated with respect, act respectable. If you act like a fool, you will get a fools reward. "In the mouth of a fool is a rod for his back."

  6. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Does God have the knowledge and foresight to see how his words will be interpreted in the future? If yes, then why didn’t he re-word some of his more ambiguous phrasing to be more specific and prevent misinterpretations?
    why would he? What reason is there? You seem to be working on the assumption that God is your butler and needs to make the Bible moron proof for some reason
    >For example, the Great Schism of 1054 between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches was caused by (among other things such as whether the bishop of Rome [the pope] had precedence over all other bishops or not), a disagreement over the ‘filioque’, a Latin word meaning ‘and from the Son’. The Catholics believed that the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father and from the Son, while the Orthodox believe that the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father alone.
    this one is quite simple the Bishop of Rome had no authority to alter the nicean creed, it has less to do with the filioque being Biblical and more so with the authority of the Pope.
    >One of these sides must be wrong, yet God never clarified which parts of his instruction should be taken literally and which should be taken as allegory.
    That is why we have the Church guided by the Holy Spirit as explained in Acts 15.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      >why would he? What reason is there? You seem to be working on the assumption that God is your butler and needs to make the Bible moron proof for some reason
      Assuming that God wants people to believe in him and obey him, which seems to be the case, wouldn't it be easier for him to just explain exactly what he wants in very precise and unambiguous detail? Asking for an elaboration would not make him my butler and if he deliberately created morons then maybe it would be wise to moron-proof his Bible.
      >this one is quite simple the Bishop of Rome had no authority to alter the nicean creed, it has less to do with the filioque being Biblical and more so with the authority of the Pope.
      Yes, that was not the best example, but if the Catholics really are so wrong should God not show all of them the right way? Maybe you will say that they are given the opportunity and simply need to make the choice but I guarantee there are many Catholics who never really consider such theological issues, that may make them simple but not evil and definitely not deserving of punishment for being led incorrectly.
      >That is why we have the Church guided by the Holy Spirit as explained in Acts 15
      This is interesting, but it makes me wonder why this instruction was deemed necessary in the Old Testament but not in the New Testament. How can circumcision go from being absolutely necessary to totally unimportant?

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Assuming that God wants people to believe in him and obey him, which seems to be the case, wouldn't it be easier for him to just explain exactly what he wants in very precise and unambiguous detail?
        but you're again not showing what you're saying is true you're just asking random questions.
        you're asking why didn’t he re-word some of his more ambiguous phrasing to be more specific and prevent misinterpretations?
        this just begs the question
        why would he? What reason is there? You seem to be working on the assumption that God is your butler and needs to make the Bible moron proof for some reason
        >Asking for an elaboration would not make him my butler and if he deliberately created morons then maybe it would be wise to moron-proof his Bible
        The Orthodox Church has 2000 years of elaboration if thats what you're looking for,
        >Yes, that was not the best example, but if the Catholics really are so wrong should God not show all of them the right way?
        Why? again you're trying to say that if God exists then he would intervene when people are wrong but you have no basis for that.
        >This is interesting, but it makes me wonder why this instruction was deemed necessary in the Old Testament but not in the New Testament
        its an constantly unveiling of scripture that ends with Christ, Noah had more then Abraham and Abraham and Christians have more then the OT israelites.
        >How can circumcision go from being absolutely necessary to totally unimportant?
        Christ.
        The OT is a foreshadowing of the NT. Christ is the new covenant between God and man which shows the prophecy that the gentiles will worship the God of Abraham, there is no more single Temple but every Church becomes a temple. The arc of the covenant was the vassal the old covenant travel in, Mary is the new arc as Christ is the new covenant, and circumcision was the sign of the old where baptism is the sign of the new.

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          >The OT is a foreshadowing of the NT.
          NT was written later than the OT, by different authors and in sloppy pidgin, and these books were rejected as fanfiction by many who kept to the OT

  7. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    >drunk on a weekend again
    >christian impulse in me grows strong
    >seek out most christian Oyish thread
    >tell random strangers god bless
    like clockwork

    god bless to everybody on Oyish, whatever you might believe

  8. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    It’s eye opening to see Christians do everything they accuse others of doing. Satan would be proud.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      Your eyes are as shut as dead man's.

      >how does anyone know anything
      Sorry, I'm won't discuss epistemology with morons. Read a book instead and come back when you have a real point to make.

      The truth though will end OP's confusion. I used to have the same questions as a religious child. "If there's one God why so many religions? " "Why doesn't God stop evil? " etc. Once you see its all made up things become quite clear.

      >outs himself as a midwit
      >doesn't realize it
      Just start actually thinking and stop being emotional for a change. It's that simple. Even midwittery can be cured. It's like losing weight. You'll never look like prime Arnold, but you can still get a six pack, lol.

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Even midwittery can be cured. It's like losing weight.
        you'd have to be a midwit to believe this, and given the other things you tell yourself are true to feel superior, i'd say you're barely off the short bus

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          Try actually finishing the sentence and thinking through it next time, doofus. Say what you'd like, it's of no relevance. You're just another seething damned man on a board full of unread pseuds.

  9. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    God may or may not exist but all religions are entirely made up. Once you realise this simple fact all this confusion will go away. Just look at this thread, everyone is just picking and choosing what they think is right.

    If there was a God and he really cared about any of this he would simply land himself among his people and rule over them enforcing his law instead of having fallible human agents do it on his behalf.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      >God may or may not exist but all religions are entirely made up
      how do you know this?
      >If there was a God and he really cared about any of this he would simply land himself among his people and rule over them enforcing his law instead of having fallible human agents do it on his behalf.
      how do you know this?

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        >how does anyone know anything
        Sorry, I'm won't discuss epistemology with morons. Read a book instead and come back when you have a real point to make.

        The truth though will end OP's confusion. I used to have the same questions as a religious child. "If there's one God why so many religions? " "Why doesn't God stop evil? " etc. Once you see its all made up things become quite clear.

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Sorry, I'm won't discuss epistemology with morons. Read a book instead and come back when you have a real point to make.
          ok so you're just making shit up then got it
          >"If there's one God why so many religions? " "Why doesn't God stop evil? " etc. Once you see its all made up things become quite clear.
          how do you know its all made up?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >ok so you're just making shit up then got it

            I love how the only response dumbfricks have to reality is claiming that it itself is made up. They cannot even defend their positions anymore

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >can't even defend their position
            so far you've failed to defend yours

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            And yours never even took off since your own argument (if it could even be called that) betrays christianity.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            I never stated a position just attack yours

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >I never stated a position just attack yours

            Incorrect. Your attack leads to the conclusion that knowledge is impossible. Hence christianity is untrue.

            >I'm not arguing for atheism though. Just revealing the fundamental fact that all religions are made up and none of it is the word of god
            you're not arguing this either, you're just stating it would any argument like an absolute moron
            but considering nothing you said is true and you're just making shit up it all becomes quite clear you're moronic

            If you've decided to confuse the word of men written by men as word of God then its on you not anyone else. You can either become perma-confused like OP or perma-delusional like this moron here
            But your suffering and doubt will be of your own making.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Incorrect. Your attack leads to the conclusion that knowledge is impossible. Hence christianity is untrue.
            ok prove it.

            >If you've decided to confuse the word of men written by men as word of God then its on you not anyone else. You can either become perma-confused like OP or perma-delusional like this moron here

            I never stated a position just attack yours

            (You)
            do you have an argument?
            >But your suffering and doubt will be of your own making.
            do you have an argument?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >ok prove it.
            Sure. If your entire defence for the claim that religious texts actually are words of god and not made up by men is that the counter to this is also made up by men then that betrays the original point since you still cannot show that religion is the word of God. And if my counter is equally unshowable then knowledge is impossible. Thus betraying christianity.

            The problem is that sentences made up by men can be true or they can be false. But they are still essentially made up by men and not words of God. We might argue that men can cone up with the truth about god on their own but that truth is still not divine revelation. Now whether its truth at all or not is another question entirely.

            >do you have an argument?
            >do you have an argument
            What getting hit on the head as a child does to a m'fker

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Sure. If your entire defence for the claim that religious texts actually are words of god and not made up by men is that the counter to this is also made up by men then that betrays the original point since you still cannot show that religion is the word of God. And if my counter is equally unshowable then knowledge is impossible. Thus betraying christianity
            but i never said that

            you're arguing against points that were never made to deflect from defending your own points

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >but i never said that
            That's alright. We've already established long ago that you are incapable of saying anything of substance. One can almost smell the lack of moral conviction through the phone screen

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >That's alright. We've already established long ago that you are incapable of saying anything of substance
            you argued again a point that was never made now you're throwing a tantrum when you got called out

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >you argued again a point that was never made

            Yes. You indeed are incapable of making points. Why are we going through this again and again now.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            NTA. He simply asked for any kind of justification for how you know so much about the fundamental nature of reality.
            The Newtonian model of planetary motion is made up by humans but it still apparently roughly reflects underlying reality. That a human came up with an idea is not an argument against the idea. There's thousands of years of theology grounded in appeals to reason, as in reasons given why each claim made might be true and why other models do not seem to match reality as closely. You don't engage with any of it, all you apparently know is fantasies based on culture war meme shit.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >That a human came up with an idea is not an argument against the idea.

            I have no problem with this. It is indeed possible that humans might one day discover the truth about god or maybe they've done it already and one of these utterly mutually contradictory religion is actually telling the truth. But that's still not revelation. As I said, if God cared enough for anyone to know the right path he would make it pretty fricking apparent with no room for the kind of confusions that OP faces.

            And since none of these different sects are backed up by divine revelation and are just thoughts of men , we are free to ask why we should trust one(or any) of them at all. We certainly do not trust laws of planetary motion on Newton's words alone

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >if God cared enough for anyone to know the right path he would make it pretty fricking apparent with no room for the kind of confusions that OP faces.
            How do you know? That's just your belief about the nature of God, your personal religious dogma. How was the mind of God revealed to you?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Ah look the braindead moron incapable of saying anything of value except dumb shit is back. So the idea that God wishes his word to be known among men is questionable now. Just how much of Christianity do you wish to betray in this very thread so you can keep on dancing around the bush like a monkey troll whose only argument ever is "no u are wrong". Do you even realise that cowardice is a sin in your religion? That your lack of moral conviction makes you no different than the sinners you wish to condemn

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Do you think this irrelevant and dishonest fantasy about my person helps anyone in any way? Does it help you figure things out or understand different perspectives? Do you just say these things without any thought behind them?
            Usually the idea is that God wants exactly what happened, that's omnipotence. Many in history have presented well argued and insightful ideas on the subject, you're not one of them. Your uninformed ideas / religious dogma about God based on recent pop media memes don't have any special significance. Appealing to them as if everyone should agree reveals you as an unthinking anti-reason religious zealot.

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Do you think this irrelevant and dishonest fantasy about my person helps anyone in any way?

            Its not a fantasy its an observation. You are a weak coward incapable of exposing your own views to the light. Infact your trust in your own religion is so weak that you can only counter skepticism with scepticism towards the scepticism. Which is moronic in and of itself. Not realising that in doing so you are also validating scepticism itself instead of actually showing that your beliefs have solid grounding. Because they don't, and you know it. That's why you engage in such cowardice and betray your own religion.

            So far you've explicitly and implicitly implied that
            >God may not want his wish to be known to the people

            Which is completely antethetical to christianity. And since some of you cannot counter these charges you hide behind the charade of infinite "no u" s like this dimwit right here

            >makes crazy moronic claims
            >spergs out when anyone questions them
            yep moron alert

            >Usually the idea is that God wants exactly what happens.

            Heh, convenient. So God is pretty much condemning every non christian and every christian who belongs in the wrong sect to hell knowingly. It would be funny if it weren't true that you morons actually believe that and shit fling all over the board about how Catholics or the orthodox or whatever denomination you don't like are going to hell

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >makes crazy moronic claims
            >spergs out when anyone questions them
            yep moron alert

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            Cont.

            Do such morons even realise that by going down that rabbit hole they are essentially debunking religion itself?

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            darwinism is doing plenty do debunk atheism already

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            I'm not arguing for atheism though. Just revealing the fundamental fact that all religions are made up and none of it is the word of god. Thus ending OP's confusion. Once you realise that the catholic church is making up shit as it goes along (which it still is, homosexuals are children of god now), protestants are making up their own shit and the orthodoxy is just as clueless on what god really wants, it becomes clear that these men and their words cannot be trusted. Not even the Bible, which itself is written by men. This is why contradictions even exist. As I said before if God was real and cared about human faith he wouldn't leave room for contradiction or misinterpretation

            Your eyes are as shut as dead man's.

            [...]
            >outs himself as a midwit
            >doesn't realize it
            Just start actually thinking and stop being emotional for a change. It's that simple. Even midwittery can be cured. It's like losing weight. You'll never look like prime Arnold, but you can still get a six pack, lol.

            >never had a real argument besides "no u" in his entire time on Oyish
            >calls someone else a midwit.
            Lol. Kek even

          • 6 months ago
            Anonymous

            >I'm not arguing for atheism though. Just revealing the fundamental fact that all religions are made up and none of it is the word of god
            you're not arguing this either, you're just stating it would any argument like an absolute moron
            but considering nothing you said is true and you're just making shit up it all becomes quite clear you're moronic

  10. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    There is no such thing as a "literal" interpretation of any text.
    The Bible constantly talks about the difference between perfection and its flawed representations. Genesis and Exodus are basically entirely focused on your question but you're so disconnected from history through angloid memes that everything has become meaningless.

  11. 6 months ago
    Anonymous
  12. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    What a stupid fricking question. Schism is caused by misunderstanding or sin. Humans aren't morally or intellectually perfect. God isn't going to force people not to sin. Therefore sin, schism, heresy, apostasy can still happen, even though the Holy Spirit infuses the Church with supernatural life.

  13. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    > why didn’t God just make things as clear as possible and force me to do things
    He was clear, but he gave you free will because he loves you and you simply choose to close your heart and will evil via your own free will. That’s the answer to all of these questions like “why does God allow evil” or “why didn’t God make things nicer and simpler” by the way.

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      Why would he bother running a lab rat experiment on us to see if we want the food pellet or not? This version of god is so obviously a projection of the society that fashioned it, that there is a supreme lordly lawgiver with a personal interest in your conduct, and if you go against him you are forfeit. Why would "God" have to resort to behavior modification mechanisms like some petty tyrant if he is all-powerful? Because he is just the projection of those petty tyrants, who've enlisted priests to sanctify them. If there is a God, he is a Spinozist

  14. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Is it possible that the conflict in interpretation is part of why the faith is able to continue going? Is it possible that the disagreement is what fuels that passion, and if everyone just agreed, it would become "common knowledge" that wouldn't be felt necessary to continue keeping record of, like a lot of recipes and such of the pre-1900s?
    Secondary note, people will fight about anything, so it might just be the best possible outcome.

  15. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Perhaps God wants us to work through these things. And not just "us" as individuals, but us as a historical collective. A solid majority of the Bible is history. I see no reason to assume that God stops working in history when the cannon is closed, and indeed the very closing of the cannon was a historical phenomena.

    Ideas emerge from other ideas, understanding grows organically, often out of opposition and synthesis. The Church is meant to be the body of Christ, Christ immanent in the world through emergence. But what does evolution and developmental biology show us about bodies? They transform overtime. The human fetus and the fish look similar enough early on. The Church has a Marian mode, the role of giving birth to the Logos' immanent body, but this takes time. Growing pains might be part of the plan.

    There is a tendency in some circles to devalue history. "Everything of importance must have already occured for the Bible is closed, we simply wait for the end times." IMO, this is supported by too much individualism, a view that sees Saint Paul's command to "put on the new man," as solely focused on individual men, not the race.

    Building knowledge and wisdom takes more than one lifetime. "Great" minds generally acknowledge they stand on the shoulders of giants. For man to freely develop towards God means a struggle for understanding God.

    Early on, man speaks down to God from on high, from above. In the Incarnation, God speaks to man face to face. At last, God speaks to man from within, through the Spirit. To my mind, the anagogic meaning here is that man must become more fully self determining, becoming more free so as to freely choose God, making the mind, and the collective mind of the Church, a "temple" as Saint Paul says. Christ tells us the kingdom of heaven is "within" and in our midst. It is emergent, intangible, but visible to those with eyes to see.

    Think, how shall it be accomplished that all shall beat their swords into plowshares and come to hear wisdom at the foot of Mount Zion? Will this not be accomplished historically? This is how Eusebius and Saint Jerome saw it. With Eriugena and then Hegel we see how dialectical plays a role in this development. With modern information theory and complexity studies I think we have even more tools to show how the universal can spring from the soil of the particular, how incorporeal things like economic recessions, "German culture," etc. have real being in the world. This new thinking can help overcome the crypto dualism we have inherited from Kant and locate the immanent spirit in the world we have come to know.

    As Saint Aquinas and Saint/Pope John Paul II remark, the soul is a two winged bird. It ascends to God on the wings or faith and reason. These are not meant to be dialectical opposites. As Erasmus and Origen would say, the spiritual interpretation gives life, the fleshly and simple profits nothing. Fundementalism is just a dialectical reaction that must occur...

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      ...in the great gyre of progress and human development.

      Hegel gets a lot right here, seeing how man must empower man's freedom as a social animal. Institutions must objectify morality. Honneth expands on this well. But Hegel misses the potency of the particular for his focus on the universal. He loses how a single person can often stand astride the levers of history. A single fruit vendor lighting himself ablaze sending the Arab world into revolt, a lone gun man killing an archduke and setting the world ablaze. Here, Balthazar's concept of theodrama might make sense. We all play different roles, sometimes the chorus, sometimes the audience, sometimes on center stage. The emergent whole of the drama hinges on the potency of the particular.

      So, while some Christians think only their denomination truly has the Spirit, that God has given them the one true truth as it were, I think this is simply the way a race of children see truth. Deflationary theories of truth are the angry revolt of the adolescent, and they dominate academic philosophy today. They say truth is just arbitrary definition. But I would say the truth is something that we only reach in stages. The truth is the whole, the entirety of a thing's coming into being. So the truth of the Church is still coming into being, and that is why we have so many different strands. It is evolving towards its telos, just we the individual must strive to. Truth is the Logos that guides all this unfolding, in all its forms. A divine semiotic Trinity, ground/object, symbol, and interpretant, each a necessary part of any meaning.

      God, in Its infinite goodness forces us to be free, gives us the right to be punished, and sets the stage for our coming to rest in conformity to Its divine image. The soul is a mirror lit by the divine light, and the world a ladder up to God given by grace (Saint Bonaventure).

    • 6 months ago
      Anonymous

      > Building knowledge and wisdom takes more than one lifetime. "Great" minds generally acknowledge they stand on the shoulders of giants. For man to freely develop towards God means a struggle for understanding God.

      This is a great argument for beginning where we are and not from two thousand years ago, you don’t think man has learnt anything since then.

      • 6 months ago
        Anonymous

        I think man has absolutely learned things since then, and advances in theological understanding are included in this.

        That's sort of the point. The other point is that we aren't "done." There is still much growth that obviously needs to happen, and so looking for some sort of solid, easy truth is the wrong idea. Asking "why wasn't God more clear?" is the wrong question in that it assumes that more clarity would accomplish God's goals better. It might be that struggle and search are essential for our development. Israel is so named because he spends a night wrestling with God after all. Abraham argued with God over the faith of the righteous in Sodom (if there are any). We are to question and develop.

        • 6 months ago
          Anonymous

          So why buy a rotten junker of a car that still can’t get you to where you want to go and can instead find one that runs perfectly?

  16. 6 months ago
    Anonymous

    Asking here, I don't understand why David taking a census offended God, and in Chronicles it says Satan told David to take it. I'm a bit confused.

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